​Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (00:01)
Welcome everyone to our leader as coach podcast series. We equip organizational leaders with insights to develop their excellence in coaching. I'm Laurel Elders with the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. We're an ICF accredited level one and level two provider where it's our passion to elevate human potential through both the art and the science of masterful coaching. My cohost today is Michael Tucker. Michael is an executive coach.

a senior partner here at the Institute and also one of our senior faculty members. And today we are very excited to be interviewing Michael Sokolowski. Michael, welcome.

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (00:43)
Thank you for having me.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (00:46)
Michael is a PCC coach, Lieutenant Commander and CFO with the U S Navy. brings over 20 years of leadership experience to the healthcare industry. In addition to being a coach like leader in his current position, he's also an executive coach as well. We've invited him today because of his rich background with successfully implementing a coaching culture. So today's topic is no surprise coaching culture. And let's go ahead and dive in.

Michael Tucker, PCC (01:17)
Yeah, Michael, thank you so much for being with us today. This has been a long, long time coming. I'm really excited about our time together.

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (01:24)
And thank you for inviting me. It's a pleasure to be here with both of you.

Michael Tucker, PCC (01:28)
Yeah, absolutely. Well, why don't we just start off with some of the basics. Tell us a little bit about your background, and how you became the leader that you are today.

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (01:40)
Sure. So as Laurel mentioned in my bio, I'm a comptroller and one of the Navy's largest hospitals and I have over 20 years of experience and as a chief financial officer, I implement strategy and finances here for organization to ensure our growth and sustainability to take care of our beneficiaries here in Southern California. I grew up though in the military as an enlisted corpsman and I went through a whole development pipeline with that.

And along the way, we learned a lot of leadership training, core specialty training, and then going into the officer community, of course, you get educational requirements put on top of that. So coming up was a lot of ground level leadership, front line management, and going more into progressive leadership roles, increasing in scope and responsibility leading to where I am today.

Michael Tucker, PCC (02:33)
Yeah, that's really exciting. So you and I, completed our coaching program together and I never knew that you came up through the holistic ranks. So this is really exciting to learn and I'm sure there's so many stories that you could share with us about that. But when it comes to coaching, like what was it that made you to decide that...

becoming an ICF credential coach was the thing for you to do at this point in your life.

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (03:04)
Yeah, that's a great question. as I mentioned, we do a lot of learning and development in the military. And one of the things that I had the opportunity to go to was a national conference in Chicago. And while I was there, I was listening to a speaker from the Cleveland Health Clinic. And they're one of the top organizations in the US in providing good quality care. And I was interested to learn from this leader there who said that they had coaching built into their leadership programs. I didn't know what coaching was.

So what I did is I looked a little bit into it. Didn't really know where to go, but like most things, you understand it and you bank the information and you move on with life, right? That's kind of what a lot of us do. Fast forward a few years later, and I'm in our regional headquarters and I'm helping our new admiral get on boarded. And like a good aid, I'm going through his calendar and I see coaching. And I thought, what is coaching? Here it is again, what is this? But it wasn't an everyday or every other day kind of a thing.

coaching with your kids, so it was different. Fortunately, he was a great leader. He had a coaching mindset already, and so he invited me to sit down and we spoke about it. He said, yeah, the military, give new admirals the opportunity to be coached and help set up their plan and really formalize their development track as they're coming into this new position. And I thought,

Isn't that interesting that we have a great leadership development track for people of influence, but where are we at the ground level on this? Like, how do we bring this to the front line? As I mentioned, I was enlisted. I never heard of this before. So how do we make that connection? So I went and looked into it more, and I realized that the DOD was doing something about it. And so I went ahead and I signed up for a master's program. That's the one that you and I did. And of course, this is during the COVID.

year, right? A lot of things were happening during COVID. So we took coaching while I was going through the program. And during the program, you actually have to work with people to develop those hours. And so I partnered with various leaders in our organization using coaching practicum. And we actually used it to get through a lot of challenging situations. We were able to secure funding necessary to take care of our patients, move forward with big projects that were just never thought of before.

It was all outside the box thinking that was highlighted and reinforced with these coach like skills. You know, and I was new in my training at the time. So even with that little bit of training, I was able to make a big difference with the organization in terms of getting our leaders together and thinking beyond the lens that they were every day. And throughout that journey, in the two years since I started doing that training to when I left Japan, we had no deaths from COVID on an entire island, no American deaths. And that was an amazing feat because as you know,

code was a huge killer at that time. Now I can't say that coaching was the reason why we had such great success solely. Obviously there's a lot of factors into it, but I saw such a huge compelling evidence from what I was doing on that and the people that I was coaching with that I thought I have to keep this momentum going forward.

So at that time I earned my ACC and I've since gone on and continue to work with DOD professionals and earned my PCC, which as you know, PCC has over 500 hours of coaching. So that's a lot of investment in our leaders here.

Michael Tucker, PCC (06:25)
Yeah, wow. You know, what stands out to me about your story was the fact that you got exposed to this at a conference and then you saw this coaching on the Admiral's time on his calendar. And that just stoked your curiosity and you just have built this...

this desire for coaching and going on to get your PCC from there. So I love to hear like all these kinds of synchronicities. And I'm curious if there are other synchronicities that stood out to you as you've begun to develop your coach-like leadership style.

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (07:06)
And so I'll say that one thing I was remiss to add in that conversation was that this wasn't something I did on my own. While I was going on this journey, I reached out to figure out how we can get this to a broader scope. And I was able to partner with our personal headquarters and found a team that was working on this. And they were working on a brand new initiative called the My Navy Coaching Initiative. And this is something that we were able to put to ground.

and get out for over 400,000 active duty and reservists throughout the world. And so while it's still growing and learning, getting brought into our organizations, it's one of these new initiatives that's really, you can take anybody from, I would say on the deck plates, as we call it in the military, somebody that's working on that frontline, all the way back up into Pentagon levels. mean, anybody can be a coach, as you know, and we use those coach-like skills everywhere. And so looking at that perspective,

If we can start bridging those connections in terms of getting those coach-like behaviors established within the workplace, it opens up and broadens our ability to really define that coaching culture that we're seeking.

Michael Tucker, PCC (08:18)
Wow, I think it's amazing that the military is using this technology in the way that they're doing it. mean, we have the best military in the world, and this is what they're doing to keep it that way.

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (08:33)
Right. And one of the things that we talk about often right now is really that resilience. And how do you build resilience in your troops? And so we all face the same common problems right now. We have personal issues. Everybody has something that they're working on in their home or professional life. all have challenges. And so the military members aren't different. They're not unique in the sense that they're going through challenges as well.

And so how do you build resilience? And that's really what the coaching initiative is on our perspective. It's really bridging those connections, creating engagement, fostering bi-directional feedback, and so people can have those conversations and really get real with the situation so they can get better.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (09:18)
I'm too, what are some of your favorite results that you've seen from this shift into coach-like leadership and being a part of a coaching culture?

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (09:28)
I will have a lot of great results that I can think of. And I mentioned one with COVID and more recent example was one where we're going through a large cost saving initiative. As you know, right now, the government's looking to save money, they want to make sure those taxpayers are taken care of. They want to make sure that that money is going to where it needs to go. And so we actually use coaching here in our financial resource office to look at all of our programs. And using these coaching matrices that we have, we were able to identify

a large savings opportunity for us, which really helped stabilize what we had at the time. And we were able to reinvest that into new opportunities that really helped deliver higher qualities of care for our patient. And so in that sense, we were able to take key stakeholders and help them look at ways that they weren't really accustomed to and to break past those barriers. Because as you know, coaching is all about finding new pathways and enlightenment, getting those aha moments. And we had several of those in that situation. We're working on a team that way.

On a micro level, we use it daily. So we have team huddles. We meet regularly with our supervisors. And we ask questions. It's not just, how was your day? But what challenges are you facing? And how do you know that to be true? And in what ways can you think of that differently? Just as basic questions that you have in a workplace, it just leads to powerful changes. And that's just something that we see on a day-to-day basis.

Michael Tucker, PCC (10:52)
Yeah, that's Michael, you know, it's it's so amazing to hear you say all of this because I've known you for a couple of years now and I've always known about your passion for coaching, but I've never had the opportunity to really sit down and listen to you just share so deeply about your experience with coaching and the Navy. And I'm curious when you think about some of the the the future.

work that may be there for the Navy around coaching. What are you seeing in the future there?

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (11:26)
Well, it's one thing to say that you're using coaching skills. It's another thing to get it out into the workforce. And so recently, the military has come up with a Get Real, Get Better plan. And that is a model that we take to heart. Because it really is, if you look at it, it's getting real. And that's addressing and saying, you know what? I have the self-awareness to say, what is the issue that I'm facing right now? What is this? That embracing the red is what they call it. And it's not from a stress or something like that.

But really to say, look, if I'm looking at an issue right now, I'm going to own it. I'm going to think about it. And I'm going to say, you know what? What's my role in this? And how do I address this at my level? How do I take ownership of it? So that's that just getting real with what you have. And the getting better part now comes into saying, I may not be able to do this on my own. As a leader, I do have the responsibility. But how do I get everybody behind me? How do I rally the troops in that sense? How do we move forward together?

And so getting better is about that plan of action. And so what the My Navy coaching utilizes is what's called the grow model. And that comes from Sir John Whitmore, his estate loaned that over to the military to use. And that grow model is well known in the coaching community. That's your goals, reality, options, and will. And when you're looking at that as really, what is your goal of this opportunity that's right here? The reality of that situation, what do we really have in front of us? The opportunities.

with the options and the will is really the accountability plan, the monitoring and evaluation. You can say grow me in that sense. So that's something that the military is using and we've implemented into our performance plans in that sense and we're really looking at how we get it to paper so people can look at this information, pick it up and move forward with it wherever you are in the world.

Michael Tucker, PCC (13:14)
Yeah, that is fantastic. And so how does a military member enroll in the training for being a coach or being coached?

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (13:26)
That's a great question. So we have a public facing website for my Navy coaching and right on it you can click a button and it says request to coach request training and that information gets put out to whoever it needs to get to. And once that's received that person has opportunity to sign up. Now part of the program this initiative that we have is it does have people be trained and we get these learning qualifications and we teach it. For example that's what I do here is I teach these workshops.

And I get people ranging in size of maybe six people. And we've done a class with over 100 in it. And during these opportunities, we're able to break off into small groups and really go through the material and practice these conversations out. And we get a lot of great feedback from it. And some people even say it's the most impactful course that they've taken during their career. So it's one of those things where they can sign up relatively easily. And it's also supported by their leadership as well.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (14:25)
That's so exciting to me because when I first started coaching, you know, people say, what do you do? say, I'm a coach and they say, what sport? Right. And that is shifting, as more companies and organizations and military are adopting, you know, leader as coach and coaching skills.

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (14:47)
Yeah, it's really exciting to watch the transformation. There are, like I said, since I joined over 20 years ago, we've really gone to hands-on leadership. Some people would even call it closer to micromanagement because it's all about here's what's defined for you. You move forward with what has been laid out with the plan. You execute.

That works in a lot of situations. I mean you don't want to be coaching on the battlefield when rounds are coming down at you You don't want to say what challenges are you facing right now? You have to get that person down on the ground and take cover, right? So there are application periods where coaching doesn't work and thinking back on where we came from We've grown so much from that to say, know There are there are times when you can have a conversation with somebody and really expand that learning and awareness And in that sense, I think leadership at all levels are learning that

Coaching is one of the primary skills that you can develop as you continue to progress and I really believe that emotional intelligence is the number one skill that leaders can develop as they move forward.

Michael Tucker, PCC (15:49)
That's fantastic. So Michael, just in wrapping this conversation up, if there was any piece of advice that you would like to impart on an organization that's thinking about building out a culture and culture, what would you say to them?

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (16:11)
Work with your passion, for one. There's a lot of passion behind this, but people are going to be passionate about what leadership cares about. So it really starts at the top, finding those passionate people to implement it, and then really finding ways to get it to all levels. Because if you want something to move forward, it's a partnership from top to bottom, and the organization has to want it. Now, organizations may not know they want it yet, but if you look at the compelling evidence behind it,

and you're looking at the return on investment of it, a small amount invested into coaching can create huge returns for that organization. And we see that both in the government side and the civilian side.

Michael Tucker, PCC (16:51)
fantastic.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (16:54)
Can you share a little bit more about what you do as an executive coach?

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (16:59)
Sure, as an executive coach, what I do, I mentioned about the military. One thing I do as executive coach is I also work on partnerships for organization. The DOD has a coaching community, and the federal network has a coaching community as well. So as an executive coach, not only do I help develop our internal programs here, but I also partner with our external agencies beyond the Department of Defense. And this way we can share information in terms of what we are all doing.

by partnering with federal level DOD partners, looking at other agencies like Army, Air Force, what are we all doing? And then also working with our local coaching chapters because the International Coaching Federation is where we go through accreditation as you see with our PCC, MCC titles. And so I partner with our local San Diego chapter on that and we look at partnering and bringing our military together here and having them learn and co-learn.

with their coaching partners in the Southern California area. as executive coach, I'm all about getting partnerships, bringing people together, and finding ways to help our leaders and sailors develop here.

Michael Tucker, PCC (18:12)
Yeah, fantastic. Well, Michael, thank you so much for spending time with us today and sharing about your experience with the coaching culture, with the Navy. I just, I'm absolutely inspired to hear you share these things because when I was active duty, we didn't have this kind of program. And I know that probably some people would say that, you know, coaching could maybe feel, be touchy feely.

And that might be an opinion that some folks have, but I can assure you, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this as we get out of here.

In my experience, that hasn't been the case. And I'm curious of what you've seen in that regard.

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (18:56)
in terms of the touchy feely.

Michael Tucker, PCC (18:57)
Right, right. It's, it's just touchy feely and Generation Z and.

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (19:03)
So I'll give you an example. So I mentioned I was teaching a course with over 100 sailors into it. My audience, they're very operationally focused, that class that I taught. And think of people that continually work with maybe weapons and hands-on things like that. So they are very focused on that mentality, like you said. Touchy feely doesn't really work with that. And one of the senior leaders mentioned to me, he said,

sir, what am I supposed to do when I have somebody that isn't getting their job done and they're not getting it done right and I need to get in there and I need to lock them in? I said you have the perfect opportunity to lead that person with your managerial style. Now, like I said, coaching is not there to correct people. We don't use corrective coaching to get in there and make them better. It's not a making thing. Coaching is here to partner and move forward. So there is

a place for coaching, but it doesn't solve all things. Like I said, you're not going to arm wrestle your way to a coaching win. This is something that is a real partnership. you lock arms together, move forward.

Michael Tucker, PCC (20:17)
Thanks again Michael and it's been a pleasure having you today.

Michael Sokolowski, FACHE, PCC (20:22)
Yeah, it's been a pleasure and really thank you for having me here.

Michael Tucker, PCC (20:25)
Absolutely.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (20:27)
Thank you, Michael, so much. This was just excellent. So illuminating to just learn from you and get your inspiring stories. So thanks everyone for joining. We hope today's discussion has equipped you with some new insights into the results and benefits of adopting a coaching culture. And at the Institute, we're here to help leaders and organizations increase business performance and leadership impact by developing coaching talent and creating coaching cultures. You can learn more.

by visiting us at integrativeintelligence.global and we hope to see you next time. Thank you.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (00:01)
Hello everyone. It says that we are live. I'm always excited for these. Welcome to the eight domains of human potential, a podcast designed for business professionals, coaches and leaders who are committed to elevating their wellbeing and success as a whole person. I'm Laurel Elders, the founder and CEO of the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. We're an ICF accredited certification provider where it's our passion to elevate human potential.

through both the art and the science of masterful coaching. I have with me today Dr. Kristin Truman Allen. She is one of our senior faculty here at the Institute. Kristin is also an executive coach who partners with organizational leaders and teams. Welcome, Kristin.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (00:45)
Thank you, I'm excited to be here.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (00:48)
Me too, I'm so excited for today's conversation. So last week we launched our eight domain discussion with the somatics, which is the neurobiology of emotional intelligence. If you missed that episode, that's okay. We're going to post the link for you in the description. Today's topic is focused on the cognitive domain, our cognition. This is huge. This is a, a domain that,

so many of us can grapple with as human beings and leaders, parents, the whole nine yards. So I'd love to hear your perspective, Kristin. What do you see is important? What do you see as the importance of cognition, especially when it comes to developing ourselves as a leader or even just elevating our wellbeing?

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (01:36)
Well, first I just want to point out the language of grappling. When you said like we grapple with this and I think that's exactly what's really important about the cognition domain because we spend so much time as leaders, as humans, grappling, taking down, unwrapping, fighting with all the stuff that's going on in our brain, all of our cognitive thinking. And so,

part of what I think is important here from Girls in Development is making sure that we're conscious that we're doing that and what's informing what we're doing there. Because if we're only making decisions and taking actions from our thinking, from our cognition, uninformed about how we're doing that, then we limit our possibilities.

So think the cognitive piece is where our possibilities come from based on our beliefs and our perceptions and then how that drives our thinking, which drives our emotions that then drives our actions. And that's where we see conflict is in our actions and our words. That's where we see productivity and promotions and results. So huge.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (02:56)
Yeah, it is huge. And as you're talking, I'm getting this visual of like our, our mindset and we have a whole class on this, right? We teach our coaches. So our mindset can either close us off from possibilities or open us up to tapping into those. That's, yeah, it's really interesting. So I wanted to share, came across this quote yesterday. I was like, this is so perfect. So this is what.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (03:05)
Thanks.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (03:26)
what I was reading that really inspired me that has to do with what we're talking about today.

Men go abroad to wonder at the height of mountains, at the huge waves of the sea, at the long courses of the rivers, at the vast compass of the ocean, at the circular motion of the stars, and yet they pass by themselves without wondering.

And this is St. Augustine. And what caught my attention about that is that we often can be so externally focused that we forget to study ourselves and learn from what's within us.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (04:10)
you

So as you're saying that, as we're studying and figuring out what's within us, where would you want to take clients with that or leaders with that in terms of where to begin?

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (04:34)
Well, and I think that's the power of coaching, right? They will, the client will go through that self discovery process of what is within them. What can they learn from themselves? And, you know, we've talked a lot about, especially in the coaching program, like if we are answering our questions and answering our lives through our ego or a limited self or limited beliefs,

And we try to change or create a transformation from that perspective. It can only get us so far. So what I love about coaching and especially integrative coaching is we get our clients in touch with their highest self, that highest part of them. And that deform or that informs their decision-making, which way different outcomes when, you know, when that process is engaged.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (05:22)
Thank

It's interesting when we think about, because we teach this and we teach about understanding the essence that we're coming from, like are we coming from essence or are we coming from ego and those perceptions and then how that is informing our beliefs and what is underlying, right? Making conscious what those beliefs are in order to change what our ultimate actions and outcomes are. And I was thinking about this recently about how important it is to

understand that as a coach and also when we see people make changes and build new habits sometimes they need to

Well, they need to tap into that essence. But also taking actions, small actions that are aligned with essence will help build their new beliefs around.

what is possible. Do you see what saying? So it goes both ways is what I was kind of pondering and is understanding that it's not one way, it goes both ways. But if we understand what's at the base, at the roots and what's seeded that, then we can get to a shift in emotion and a shift in action, which impacts all of our relationships, our programming, basically.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (06:32)
Mmm.

Yeah, yeah, so true. And I love that you made the emotional connection there too, because I mean, I recall waking up to the power of my mind and how that impacted my emotional experience when I had a friend that didn't respond and I was worried that they were in trouble and that because they went hiking and I was just so scared that I had this emotional reaction when they were fine. They had just fallen asleep and didn't and they missed an important.

Gathering. So, but my emotional reaction was based off of the story in my head. And yet none of it was real, but I experienced it as real experience. my gosh. Is this my intuition? Is this something, you know, it was all, it was not real. And sometimes our intuitions can reflect. Truths to us. Right? So this is why I think people grapple with the mind and that quote.

caught my attention because are we learning? Are we becoming self-aware? And so in integrative coaching, we look at five different ways that our cognition, our cognitive maturity is so important to our wellbeing and what that link is. And the first one is the mind is capable of understanding truth, but it's also capable of generating an illusion. Something that is not true, like a limiting belief that might be underneath at the roots.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (08:19)
You

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (08:27)
That's a big deal.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (08:32)
And it can be, if that's true, then it is capable of learning new truths, rerouting the pathways, rethinking what is possible. No matter age, no matter experiences, and understanding that trauma and different kind of things impact that.

Chemical things impact that, but the mind has that capacity to be able to build new pathways. And then we have to have that awareness in order to discern what is true.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (09:13)
Right.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (09:15)
Or at least in the moment, right? Because maybe we, I think we can also argue that sometimes inside of it, it's hard to know what the truth is. Inside of our situation.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (09:24)
Yeah.

Yeah, it really can be. You know, we talk a lot in our classes about how there's the phenomenon that happens and then we interpret what happens. And then we have a reaction to the interpretation. So we may be at some points three or four times removed from the actual event. And when we become self-aware, we can catch the illusions before they start to take root and be more centered.

which is connected to the second one. The second one is the mind is the only part of us that's capable of self-deception.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (10:05)
Well, I'm glad that we started this series with Somatic. Yeah, because I think if we're only listening to our mind because it's capable of self-deception and we're not tapping into our spirit self and our physical self that also has a knowing, and it goes both ways, right? We could have some cellular knowing that...

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (10:09)
Right? Because it can. Say more.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (10:30)
is not helpful, that our mind can help us unpack. But if we're only making decisions based through our mind and not paying attention to what our body is sensing and telling us and coming from our heart and information, fully we're not integrating our whole being in terms of making decisions and accessing possibilities and reaching potential.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (10:58)
Yeah, that is so true. I was thinking before I became self-aware, by being coached from an integrative perspective, my coach was an integrative coach, I lived in my head, my mind, and I wasn't using these other parts of myself to inform what I was doing. It's a shift. Yeah.

So the third one is the mind is the part of us that chooses. It is the part of us that is response able.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (11:39)
you

And I'm just thinking about a couple clients that I've had this week where we're talking about choices and where those choices are coming from. And then all the emotion that comes with our choices, whether we are embarrassed by our choice or whether we're uncomfortable with our choice or being decisive and where our mind is making a choice, but it affects.

Everything else affects our emotion, affects our actions, because our mind can also make the judgments about whether or not our, about that choice.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (12:19)
That is so true. Yes. And again, it can generate an illusion about something or it can get us closer to our truth or or we can choose in alignment with our highest self. Yeah.

Alright, number four. The mind is the part of us where the ego resides.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (12:43)
that ego.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (12:47)
Yes, the Go Excel.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (12:49)
Which I think, you know, our mind has learned a lot of things like biologically, physically, the mind has that space to help us be protected, right? It's sensing when we need to be defending ourselves or actual safety. So the mind needs to do that work too of helping us make sure that that's what's actually needed in this situation.

so that we're not just hijacked and being ego-based or fear-based or defending-based because we need to be in self-protection, like literal self-protection if it's not indicated. Like it could be an old story.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (13:34)
Yeah, I love that you brought that into it because the ego part of ourself, the part that says I am me, I am independent, is there to help protect us and it can turn into a limitation as well. So one of the messages I think is so important with the cognitive domain is that we have all of these amazing virtues within us, right?

passion the capacity for love Generosity, I these are all these amazing virtues and The egos version of things can actually end up limiting us if we stay there if we stay there We don't drop into these other parts of self and have those parts of self care for us so I'm gonna be a different if I'm in a defense pushing against something then if I'm

in my higher self saying no, that's not okay. Or this is, you it's not that we need to leave all common sense at the door. It's just which part of me am I operating through? At one point, this defense mechanism served me and now I'm seeing it limits me as a leader or, you know, a friend or a parent. So again, it's, think going back to that self-awareness.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (14:37)
you

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (15:03)
and that journey that coaching takes us on as we self-discover what part of myself is actually driving right now.

So number five, the mind operates optimally when put in allegiance to the highest self. So this is, I think this is a big one because in our society we're taught mind, spirit. Notice the mind comes first. And yet if it's the part of us that's capable of self-deception, is that what we want? Or do we want to double check? Is this, you know, is this true? Is this not true?

and then engage from that place of inner truth, inner alignment, inner value, inner virtue. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that one.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (15:55)
Well, as you were saying that, we teach, and we use the language mind, body, spirit, and I'm thinking of a number of clients who, and just people in general who, when they're making decisions, it seems like they have an intuitive body, spirit, knowing, and then they grapple with it because they're trying to justify it with their mind. So even though we're teaching mind, body, spirit,

I think our natural response is a little bit more intuitive, especially after some, you know, there is some knowing might be collective, ongoing knowing, could be some recent experience, but we have a knowing and then our mind tries to make sense of it. And then

We feel the discomfort if it doesn't feel aligned or integrated, and then just even that information can create an awareness of, I don't feel good about the decision that I'm making from my mind because something feels off. Or you see what I'm saying, you're nodding. Yeah, do you have a thought or an idea?

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (17:06)
Yes.

I think I've lived half my life doing that. Grappling with, my gosh, what is, but trying to solve things from my head space instead of integrating all these different parts and getting clearer. Yeah.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (17:12)
Thank

here.

You

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (17:28)
Well, and what's, what's also coming up for me is an integrative coaching. you know, we're, we're engaging all three parts. We're engaging the whole person. Right. So we're not just in the mind. And when we learn how to engage the mind for its creative ability, for its action ability, for its choice, I mean, it's, it's imagination, right? Are we in story or are we in vision?

You know, the mind's capable of either. It can create a story and a fantasy, and we can have an experience because of that story, or we can engage imagination. The virtue of imagination is vision. And that gives leaders direction. gives our lives direction, purpose, and meaning.

It's so, yeah, such a, it's a very powerful domain, especially when we become self-aware of how to engage it and how to minimize self-deception.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (18:39)
and we're, you as you're talking about vision and imagination, the mind, because it can imagine a story, useful or not, if we're conscious about it and intentional about it, we can engage a story that we want it to be. And so if we're trying to tap into potential, we're trying to tap into possibilities, vision goals, access, what is even...

unheard of, right? We can imagine it and then imagine the pathway to get there. So we're, I appreciate how we're talking about how important this is because it can limit us and it also can free us.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (19:28)
Yeah, absolutely.

when I'm also thinking, you know, the imaginative part.

You know, in our, when we're coaching, we're helping someone get to the roots of what's going on for them, right? Because we, we often live at thought and feeling. We experience life, thought and feeling. We, we have our thoughts that are active and then we have our emotional responses. And yet unconsciously under the surface, we may have beliefs that are filtering or running how we're experiencing things.

Right. So if I believe, well, one of my, my core unconscious, I wasn't conscious of this until I stepped into coaching. one of my core limitations was I'm missing something. Everyone else has it, but not me. I'm somehow was born missing this thing that everybody else has.

I did not know that was filtering my worldview, my world experience until I became more conscious of it. So we can, I think that goes back to that quote of are we studying ourselves? Are we getting to know ourselves? Are we questioning? huh. I wonder if that reaction like has some roots to it. I wonder, wonder what's, what's there for me, but I also wonder what's true. And so I think that,

This self discovery, what I love about coaching is that self discovery, self inquiry is where empowerment comes from. That's what I've seen and experienced anyway.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (21:10)
Yeah.

Empowerment and hope and it can come from some playfulness. Right? So we can, if we are taking ourselves, I mean, even just thinking about all of this, it's very serious, it's very thoughtful, it's very heady. But if we can get playful about it and imaginative about it.

then we can loosen it up a little bit and come at it from a different perspective and not feel like we're being self-aware and judging. We can just explore differently from a different kind of angle. So that's what we do with metaphor, right? We use a metaphor to explore the situation or an experience of something we know, and then playfully.

unpack what we know about this other thing and then align it to our current experience and it informs us in a lighthearted, open, a little bit less emotion until we can really get to it in a playful way.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (22:21)
Yeah, I love that. And for those tuning in, Kristen did her dissertation in coaching and the power of metaphor. So I'd love if you could share more about the power that you've seen in metaphor in your research in sustaining personal and professional transformation.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (22:41)
Hmm. Well, I mean, I could geek out on this for a really long time, so I'll try and keep it simple. But what I found was that when a metaphor is used, like we just were talking about, you're kind of bypassing the ego brain that's keeping things limited or keeping you scared of having a conversation even. And so it becomes a catalyst to discover something new. we're just to...

just to create a neutral definition for everyone listening, we're thinking of metaphor as a symbol or a thing or an object that you're generating information from and applying it to something else. So I can think of myself as a dolphin leader. We know that I'm not a dolphin, but I can take the essence, right? I'm not, just in case you weren't. But I can take the elements of how dolphins behave.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (23:28)
Okay, I was wondering.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (23:37)
from a leadership perspective, how they interact with other people, how they communicate, all of the essence of a dolphin and apply it. Like if I'm trying to decide how do I want to be as a leader, I can apply that to my personal leadership style in terms of moving through.

shared leadership with different pods of information, how I'm communicating, how I'm being playful, those kinds of things. So I can take the bits and pieces of that and apply it to me, and it informs me a different kind of way of being, and also from a cognitive perspective, gives me some new pathways to think about how I'm making decisions. So what I noticed...

what I learned in the research was that when a metaphor was used, it becomes a catalyst to create the self-awareness. And then it changes how we're taking action differently and then creates kind of an emotional response or a symbol that then becomes a self-generated cycle of change. So I have an ongoing way to remind myself. Mind, body, or body, spirit, mind.

to access for ongoing change.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (24:53)
love that. Yeah. And I've, I've seen it and experienced it over the years as a coach and, as a human being, I'm my, one of my favorite examples. I know the other day I'm going to transparency moment. So Kristen and I were, yeah. So Kristen was coaching me and what was fascinating about that is that, you know, in coaching, especially integrative coaching, we're looking for.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (25:10)
I know where going. Yeah.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (25:23)
What is the truth? What's the essence? What's the highest self versus the, the defense mechanisms is that part of me answering. And what I got in touch with through the coaching was that my, my leadership, I guess you could call it spirit animal is a bumblebee and that, the essence of the metaphor using my imagination just, and it engaged my creativity in such a new way. And I was like, huh,

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (25:38)
Thank

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (25:51)
Bumblebee does this, a Bumblebee does that. And that, when it informs what I'm doing and my intention, like it, brought a whole new meaning and a whole new experience to, to what I was doing. So just wanted to share that as a

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (26:12)
Thank you for sharing that. you know, since we're talking about the cognitive domain, right, like we bypassed the protective mechanisms in our minds, used our cognitive imagination, but also the essence of and the abundance of what's possible. And what is kind of playful and imaginative to inform

the essence, right? All on a cognitive level, but using the cognitive piece in the brain as a tool instead of a driver.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (26:50)
Mmm. I love that.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (26:54)
which is really helpful for, I mean, it's interesting because some people would say, I can't do metaphor, I don't play this way, I don't think this way. But people who tend to be in their heads or, you when they know that they are thoughtful, learning, processing, analytical, it's really, that's a really helpful way to help them access other parts of themselves if...

they need a different kind of movement to get out of their head. Do you see what saying?

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (27:28)
Yes, yes, absolutely. I have noticed in coaching when a client is really stuck or if I'm really stuck, it's like we're in the head. Let's move to these other parts so that we can get momentum and then engage the head in the mind for creativity and follow through and action. Yeah, I think, is that what you were? Yeah. Yeah.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (27:54)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (27:57)
What do you see as the cost of self-deception?

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (28:04)
I mean, I think the short answer is limit. Self-deception keeps us from accessing our best self, our integrated highest self, and whatever it is, our purpose, what we came here to serve, when we are in self-deception, we can't access our self-efficacy in a full way.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (28:07)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, and I've seen a correlation between power leaks and the cognitive domain. So how do we give our power away? How do we drain our energy? I've seen a pretty powerful connection there.

For example, assumptions, our mindset, judgments.

All of those are ways that we can give our power away. mean, there's a whole list. Again, we have a whole class on power leaks. There's many ways that we can give our power away until we become conscious of it. And then we could move forward, even in a hard situation, with our power intact.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (29:15)
Yeah.

I love how when we're coaching leaders and anyone really, but I'm thinking about people who I think of leaders as anyone who's influencing change through other people. So moms, right? Like leaders who aren't aware of their power leaks. When they become aware of their power leaks and kind of plug it up and enhance the flow somewhere else.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (29:46)
you

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (29:59)
It's amazing how transformative it can be in terms of how they influence. And for ourselves too, right? Because we, you know, we're coaching and we get coached because we all are human beings and tend to, we shift back in sometimes into those spaces that are limiting and draining.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (30:20)
Yeah. Yeah. And integration theory teaches us that, you know, when we're, when we start to self develop, we expand our capacity to live in the bigger picture, to be responsive and to minimize our power leaks. And yet under stress, our, our defense mechanisms are the first thing to kick into gear, right? We're just, we're wired that way. So can we become self aware of that? And.

at the Innegram Institute, the research that they did showed that when someone was under stress, they went down in terms of the levels of integration, the levels of development. Under stress, we go down a couple notches because we end up reacting. And then when we can become self-aware, it can pull us back up and we can start getting back into big picture problem solving, back into our highest self. And it's that.

that self-awareness piece that's the bridge from the reactivity to the responsive.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (31:30)
Hmm. I'm glad that you pointed that out because we're you know, we're talking kind of

theoretical a little bit about some of these concepts and understanding that stress impacts our ability to move through the process and our ability to access our essence in such a powerful way. Sleep stress, trauma stress.

emotional stress, like the list is huge in terms of what impacts our ability to even move out of fear or move out of the stress protective response. maybe say a little bit about maybe you can think of a client or clients where you've had them move out of stress first in order to be able to truly or get them to truth to be able to transcend or transmute.

for where they are.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (32:34)
Yeah.

Yeah. I would say, always. So, I was reading, I can't remember where this was. was reading how the brain can't both be creative and under stress at the same time. So when coaching, if a client is under stress, part of the process is getting them centered. So that calms somatics, right? Engaging the somatics, then the brain can kick in and a more creative.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (32:38)
Thank

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (33:04)
resourced way and knowing that with coaching we We are not coaching in times of trauma That's not our wheelhouse. So when a client comes in we can help them get to that creative self-generating part of themselves and Get out of the the power leaks

So I just pulled up the power leaks list and just in under mindset power leaks, have justifications, assumptions, catastrophizing, generalizing, minimizing, self-deprecation, projecting, exaggerating, leaning towards pessimism, rigidity, and black and white thinking. It's either or.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (33:57)
Mm.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (33:58)
And that's just in mindsets and behaviors. We see loose boundaries versus healthy boundaries, taking responsibility for someone else, someone else's choices when it may not be our place to in authenticity or camouflaging, greed, not grieving, getting stuck in guilt and shame. mean, there's just, there's so many ways that the mind can,

can step in until we become self-aware.

of these things. And sometimes they turn into habits and tendencies.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (34:36)
Mm-hmm.

I love coaching so much because we can, it's so powerful when a client can notice their power leak and then once you know, you can change it, right? Our minds are powerful. So just having the information can then shift, even subtle, right? Just a subtle little shift is enough to change and get a whole different outcome.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (35:10)
Yes. Yeah, that's it's so true. That's what, you know, one of the things that, one of the classes that we teach on mindset that Kristen, I know you, you're brilliant at teaching. We, it's a process of getting someone into what's at the roots of what's going on, what they're experiencing. So getting the underlying beliefs that we were talking about earlier and, and shifting those and what I've noticed when we use that, when I use that process with myself and with clients.

is that when a client moves from like the fear and the head noise, know, oh, the chatter, all these different thoughts, when they get clear about what their truth is at the root level, there's this calm that happens. All of a sudden the brain chatter, quiet, and then there's space.

There's space for them to then determine, wow, this is actually what is true. Now, how can I move forward? And it's from such this peaceful grounded place.

yeah, it's, just, it's, it's like clockwork. see it all the time and experience it when I apply it, when I don't apply it, I can stay in my head running around for days.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (36:31)
you

For sure.

Hmm, we could talk all day about the cognitive domain.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (36:48)
Yeah, yeah, so much to it. mean, it's definitely, it's got its place in our human potential. It's one of the eight domains. And I think that's the message I would love to get across today is it is one of the eight domains of human potential. So it's one place that we can integrate, we can elevate, and we can become self-aware. And even, you know, I think about imposter syndrome.

And that's a big one or confidence levels. And are we attaching to something externally as our source of validation or value? Or are we able to go within and get really clear about who we are and what we're about in the world? And can we start moving forward from that space?

and having that clarity of mind, you know, versus just getting caught up in our thoughts and having that, that, you know, that worry set in or that the fears set in, it's, it's a different experience.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (37:57)
Thank

Right, untethered, it goes all over the place. we can reel it in. Yeah.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (38:03)
Yeah. Yeah.

And I've also noticed how just one illusion can generate a hundred different fear thoughts. And when we can help the client help ourselves get really clear, that was just an illusion. Okay. That was not true. That, that clarity of mind and heart can then start coming forward.

All right, so any other thoughts before we wrap up today?

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (38:39)
Hmm... No more thoughts.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (38:47)
I love it.

All right. Well, we, yeah, yeah. Thank you so much for joining me in this discussion on the cognitive domain and the, the pros and cons, right? As a human being, what we can grapple with. and also how we can use the cognitive domain to really elevate ourselves when we, learn how to engage it. So we hope that today's discussion has been a lantern to you and your evolution as a business professional coach or leader.

Dr Kristen Truman-Allen PCC (38:53)
I don't think so. You covered it.

Laurel Elders, MCC, CEC (39:21)
You can learn more about our ICF accredited coach training and our new leader as coach program by visiting us at integrativeintelligence.global. We'll be placing links to the things that we've referenced today below after this podcast airs and we hope to see you next time. Thank you.

Keri, tell me your name, title, location, anything you want to say, your business name, anything like that.
00:11 Keri Nail
Okay. My name is Keri Neil. I'm a life coach and I have my own coaching business which is Keri Nail. Life coaching, pretty simple. And I'm, uh, I'm located in Phoenix. But of course, you know we can do this wherever we're at, which I do a lot says because I travel a lot. So. Yeah. Um, and I've been a life coach since I graduated the, from the institute. I started my own life coaching business.

How long ago did you answer the call to coach?
00:55 Keri Nail
Well, interesting. I was just, you know, looking at what I wrote down, um, and I'm like, oh wow. It was before that, um, in the early 90s I think, because I was working for a big corporation in Chicago and they brought in, um, high performing organizations. So I was assigned to be a team leader and they sent us to all this training to be a team leader and leadership development and things like that. And so I love that idea of um, instead of a manager telling an employee what to do, that you're actually helping them and guiding them to figure out the answers for themselves. And so I think it started there. And then in the late 90s I went back to school and got my master's in organization development. And coaching was a part of that executive coaching. And so it's just kind of led up to there. And then I've lived in a couple of different countries other than the United States and did some training and development and leadership, um, and team building workshops and things like that. And uh, when I moved to Phoenix about seven years ago, um, I joined the International Coaching Federation and the Organization Development Network here. And um, just to see what I wanted to do, did I want to be more strategic, big picture, um, with organization development, or did I want to do more one on one coaching? So I bought, volunteered for a couple of projects with both organizations and that's when I decided I like the one on one. And then I realized I wasn't really coaching, was more advising and consulting. And so I was referred by ICF, International Coaching Federation, uh, to investigate a couple different coaching certification programs, one of which is the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. And I am so happy that I did that and started my own life coaching business.

How did your training at the institute help shape your success?
04:11 Keri Nail
Oh, well, just, um, learning how to be a coach, asking thoughtful and insightful questions. Um, what. And first of all, what coaching is and coaching isn't. And, um, the materials that the institute provided. Not only the, uh, written materials, hands on, um, practice, practice, practice. With questions that the ICF International Coaching Federation uses. Um, and also learning how to integrate our personal and professional lives, our whole person, which is what my life coaching business is about. And I'm like, I need. It was the perfect fit for what I wanted to do as a life coach.

How does it feel to be a successful coach?
05:23 Keri Nail
Oh, I finally feel like my purpose and passion are in line, and I'm using my favorite way to bring those together. My passion is helping people be their best selves. I met my. This is my tagline. I'm at my best when I'm helping others be their best. And then my purpose is to create a more peaceful, friendlier world to be in. And I. Sounds like Miss America. I just want peace in the world. But it's true. I. I. Like I said, I've lived abroad. I've lived in a couple different other countries, and I know what I do cuts across all nationalities, all countries, religions, whatever. And, um. And so, yeah, it's, um, yeah, so. And, And. And so it's bringing that passion, my passion and my purpose together in the favorite way that I like to do.

Do you have any advice for someone considering entering the coaching profession?
06:43 Keri Nail
Absolutely. I would first recommend, um, joining the International Coaching Federation if there's a chapter in your area and joining it anyway just to really understand what coaching is. And then, um. And then, like, what. What I did was I asked for references to coaching program programs. Um, and, you know, talk to several of them and see what fits best for you. Just like I did with Laurel. Um, just looking through the program and then actually speaking to her about it with it was, you know, that the institute itself, the information, Laurel, all of it just cemented what I was trying to do. So, yeah, join ICF, uh, first, because as we know, the Institute for Integrative Intelligence is ICF approved. And so, yeah, go to ICF first. Make sure, you know, if it, if the shoe fits, do it, and then do it with the institute, uh, for Integrative Intelligence.

What is one word that describes your experience as a successful coach?
08:13 Keri Nail
Positivity. Absolutely. I not only, um, not only do. Part of my coaching with a, with a company is teaching people how to be mindful and turn our thoughts, neuroplasticity, rewiring our brains from negative to positive. And when I went through that, I did it for myself. So the full self awareness about that. And as an alumni of, uh, the institute, I've sat on, um, many of Laurel's, um, webinars. And one of them was about mindfulness. And I'm like, oh my gosh. This aligns with what I do for this organization I work for. And so, um, yeah, it's just when I, as, as a coach, when I learn something that works for me out of all the years and experiences I've had, I want to share it and I want other people to grow from it and learn from it and have the same or similar experience. That positive experience that I personally had.

What concerns did you have to overcome when deciding whether or not to invest in your coaching education?
10:14 Keri Nail
Yeah, so when I moved to Phoenix, I was just newly divorced and was getting a real handle on my finances. And so I just really wanted to make sure I was investing well. And, um, so I just once, I just once I knew this was it and this was the program I wanted to join. Um, it didn't take me long to decide, yeah, let's do this. And, um, I. I haven't looked back. I've been. That was one of the best decisions I could have made and I'm very happy that I did it.

What would you tell someone who is watching this and unsure about taking the next step?
11:15 Keri Nail
Uh, contact Laurel. Laurel Elders, who created and designed and, um, runs the Program for Integrative intel, the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. Call. Call her. Talk to her or, or probably anybody in, you know, um, that works for Laurel. Um, but she's, as you know, she's awesome. And so that I just remember that conversation was the best conversation I had. It just. It Made me go, yeah, okay, let's do it.

Any programs that you're currently offering or aspects of your coaching practice that you'd love to share?
12:26 Keri Nail
Yeah, a couple things. So, um, I get most of my clients through this organization called Find your win. You can look find your win dot com. Um, so there's a little bit of, like I said, mindfulness, uh, teaching along with coaching. Um, and so it's. It just brings both of those aspects together for me. M. That are both so important to me. Um, and then, um, I also, like I said, I started my own life coaching business about four years ago. And when I just. When I do it on my own like that. Depending on what, on the presenting issue. Right. A lot of times I also like to share the personal, uh, preferences from the Myers Briggs type indicator dichotomies. Um, because I've been trained and certified in the United States, in Canada and Singapore, and um, I. It's. For me, it's a simple assessment that I can share, um, that helps people understand their natural preferences, where they get their energy. Is it more inward or outward? Uh, how they, how they see things? Is it more big picture, future oriented, all possibilities? Or is it more learning through your, your senses, your five senses. Touch it, feel it, smell it, in the moment and very sequential. And then. And again, these are preferences. We start with the preference, but that doesn't. I mean, um, we do both. It's just where do we start? And, uh, what's our natural tendencies and, and how does that impact our relationships with people and the work we do? Um, the

Michael Lopez audio 
00:03
Question
Please share your name, title, location, and your business name.

00:09
Michael Lopez
My name is Michael Lopez. I'm a author, speaker, consultant. I, uh, live here in Sacramento, California. And, uh, my business name is really just Michael J. Lopez Consulting. But, uh, uh, I'm a solopreneur, though I have a number of business relationships that help me deliver, deliver large transformational projects for clients, uh, all over the world, really across industries.

00:36
Question
How long ago did you answer the call to coach?

00:49
Michael Lopez
Well, it's. I've been a coach in various capacities my whole life. Uh, I coached so sports for years. And so while that's not exactly what we're talking about, I think the, the coaching orientation, I was, I was sort of raised by great coaches as an athlete. Uh, I coach kids and young adults from a pretty early time after my football playing career was done. So I've always had a coaching orientation. And then during my consulting years with other companies, I think my kind of coaching led style always lended itself to the way I delivered for clients. But it was really just in the last two year and a half when I started my own company that I finally got my formal coaching certification. So, uh, it's sort of a long, uh, overdue, um, process to kind of really formalize what I think has been a pretty natural orientation for me for most of my life.

01:47
Question
When did you go through Laurel's program?

01:52
Michael Lopez
I started last year. So I started my company in October of 2023, and I started with them in, uh, January, December, right after I, you know, went through. And I just went through the sort of ACC certification for the first level. You, uh, know, coaching is a what I'd call a feature of my business. It's not my core business. I tend to do larger consulting projects. I do a lot of speaking. I just released a book, so that's kind of path that I've taken. So it was important for me to have the formal skill set. And so I started with the acc. We'll see where I go from there. But, um, that's where I landed.

02:34
Question
What do you feel contributed to your success in the coaching profession?

02:43
Michael Lopez
Uh, well, I think it's really a couple things. I think my own experience being coached by great coaches is a big part of that. And again, it started As a young athlete, just having coaches that took an interest in me, that maybe they were taking a different approach in the context of a team sport. But understanding the role of a coach, the role of feedback, the role of perspective, the role of great questions, um, the role of expectations, all of that I think has just such been a big part of my, my identity, my personality. And so, um, you know, I think then translating that into the work I do for clients, it's, you know, the power of a great question and helping people, um, in their own journey. You know, it's one thing to hire a consultant to, to tell you the answer, but in a lot of cases in the work that I do, which is very transformational in nature, um, I want people to find their own answers because I know that, that we own what we create. And when I come up with the idea, meaning the client, when the client comes up with it, they're uh, more attached to it, they're more committed to it, they're more likely to implement it. And so my job's always been to build a framework around people for them to discover their own insights and creations. And so, you know, I think I just learned that in many ways by trial and error. And then, you know, as I went through the program, I actually learned a lot of new stuff that I should have been doing the whole time that I never knew about. So it was really great timing.

04:14
Question
Looking back, how did your training at the Institute shape your success?

04:21
Michael Lopez
Well, like I said, I think the first and most important thing was, um, I learned some really important skills that I was probably, um, faking more than anything or maybe doing without a real understanding of why I was doing it. And so I think the providing a more solid modern day coaching foundation was just really, really critical. Um, the other thing it did was really raise my awareness about when I had my coaching hat on versus when I had my consulting hat on. And you know, there's times for each of those. And I think I'm much more deliberate now about when that is and how I'm showing up. So I think it added a lot more, um, intentionality to the work that I do. Uh, and then I think it just, you know, a lot of people out there call themselves coaches these days and there's a, there's a coach around every corner. And while I think that's great, generally speaking, I think there's something to be said for people who've earned the certifications and the, you know, gone through the training to credentialize them to really serve that role. I worry sometimes that people call themselves a coach, but they don't really know what that means. So for me, those things have been just very much, um, a return to basics kind of, um, skill set that's amplified what I was already doing and made me even more effective in the role.

05:46
Question
How do you think the training at the Institute really gives you that advantage over the people that just call themselves coaches?

05:59
Michael Lopez
Well, I think a lot of people, number one, they call themselves coaches. And I get hit up by all these people all the time, or I see them on Instagram and all these places. Um, number one, I think those individuals have a framework in mind that is more about telling the client what to do than about helping the client uncover their own insights and wisdom. And so it's, uh, you know, they have a program is what it really is. They're not a coach. They're. They're. They're selling a program. And, yeah, look, maybe that program's perfectly fine. But I think that's the first big distinction is, you know, coaching is about helping people discover, not about telling them the answer. And so I think that's a, That's a really big distinction. Um, I think the second thing is there are some real behavioral skills that you need as a coach, um, in terms of listening, in terms of questions, in terms of holding space, in terms of understanding the, you know, the hierarchy of what people are experiencing in their different circumstances. And, you know, I think for a lot of coaches, if you've never had that, you. You don't maybe know what to look for. Um, you don't really understand maybe what that individual is going through. You know, if I'm a fitness coach or I'm an. I'm a nutrition coach or I'm know, pick your coach, everyone's got a. Got an angle. Um, you know, you might not have all of that other training that wraps around it. Um, and I think the last thing I just mentioned that, you know, a lot of coaches have a. They have an angle, you know, maybe an area that they're specializing in. And again, I'm not saying that in a disparaging way, but I think, you know, a real coach doesn't need to be an expert in your problem. They need to be an expert in the fundamental skills of coaching, in which case we can, um, we can apply it to anywhere in your life. And so I think that's just a distinction that I see quite a bit.

07:50
Question
How does it feel to be a successful coach?

07:53
Michael Lopez
I mean, it's like, uh, it's just like raising your kids right when they, when they do something that, that, um, that reflects their growth in the, in the journey that they're on, you know, those are tremendously rewarding moments. Um, and uh, you know, I still, it's funny, I still have, in every coaching call or even in client sessions where I'm leveraging my coaching Persona, I always walk into it with a bit of butterflies. Like, I don't know where this is going to go and how this is going to go. But when you get to the end and you see that individual in whatever way that they've managed to gain enough insight to take them to the next step, you know, that really does, uh, it feels good in terms of what, you know, they're experiencing. It feels good to know that you've been a part of that. Um, and so for me, it's just really that those small moments of independence, of growth, of wisdom that come from people who have done the hard work of kind of exploring whatever it is that may be going on for them in their life.

08:59
Question
What do you think is your secret sauce while you're coaching?

09:05
Michael Lopez
Oh, my secret sauce. Um, um, I think, uh, I can be a little bit provocative at times in the sense of, um, being willing to maybe nudge or give direct feedback. And I don't mean like insensitive feedback, but direct feedback. Um, maybe what I'd call m. Uh, uh, maybe a more challenge oriented approach. Um, as someone who lives with an athlete's mindset, I always believe that on the other side of your struggle is, you know, a version of you that, that you just can't wait to meet. Right. And so I think I've always been willing to break the rules a little bit and, and help people, uh, move in ways that might be uncomfortable but really, really important. So I've always been willing to kind of do that. I do that for myself. So, um, you know, sometimes I, I'll, uh, at least label it, you know, hey, can I offer a suggestion? Uh, can I be a little bit provocative? Can I, you know, offer a challenge so that I'm at least letting people know that, that that's my orientation. But, um, I think it's just a part of my own DNA that if I didn't do it, it wouldn't be authentic to me either. So that, that comes out from time to time.

10:23
Question
What advice do you have for someone considering entering the coaching program profession?

10:33
Michael Lopez
You know, I think, um, the first thing I think is to, is to view it really as a, um, as an act of service. And, and certainly we get paid, we're making money. I'm not suggesting it's, you know, charity or philanthropy, but I do think if you're a service oriented human being, then, then coaching is something that might really resonate with you. Um, that would be the first principle. I think the second principle is to be willing to practice and understand that it is a skill set that you need to continuously, uh, participate in and grow yourself. Um, it's not just about setting up calls and kind of listening and asking occasional questions. You know, it takes an emotional energy that you should be thoughtful and diligent about. And so I think it's, it's, it's not just a label, right? It really is something, uh, that comes with more than that. You know, I think the other thing we talked about it in a bit plain speak is there's a lot of coaches out there and there's a lot of people selling the easy button and there's a lot of people with slick social media and all these things that, that really cater to, I think many people's natural reaction to follow the shiny object. And I think if you're a coach that's really focused on doing the hard work, it's sort of, um, it's not glamorous all the time. Right. It's a lot of starting small, it's a lot of dealing with smaller problems. You're not coaching the CEO of company XYZ right off the bat. You're sort of building up into that. Uh, and so I think it's about patience as well and understanding. Um, and then maybe the last thing I'd say you mentioned it is, um, I know when I went through the program, you learn certain fundamental skills and do's and don'ts and those are important. But I think it's also about finding your own style in the coaching experience and knowing that, uh, you've got to be authentic too. Right. And what does that look like? Are you someone that has the ability to push or you want to tweak a little bit of what you do. And that comes through repetition and trial and error and getting it wrong sometimes and all of that. So I'd say that's the other thing is don't be afraid. Make it your own in the ways that are still resonant with the core principles of coaching, but authentic to you. And that's, that's part of the fun.

13:00
Question
What would you tell someone who's watching this and unsure of taking the next step?

13:11
Michael Lopez
Uh, well, I mean, I think, you know, I would. I would ask someone who's a coach what their experience has been like. Um, and I think that's a great way to start. Certainly, uh, the folks from. From, you know, our program were really generous with their time in terms of answering questions, reaching out to programs, interviewing them. Um, you know, there's. There's a lot of new programs now. I didn't know about this one until I kind of found it through another resource. And so, uh, you know, there's a lot of places to go get really high quality training. Um, and there's different price points for that. And so I think it's asking questions, doing your homework, reaching out to a coach. And, you know, then the other thing I'd say is it's. It's also a bit like a good liberal arts degree in the sense that you may decide you don't want to coach as a primary profession. But like me, the skills are translatable in so many ways in your life. And so, uh, even if you just think about it from the standpoint of how can I learn to be a better listener, how can I learn to be more empathetic, how can I learn to hold space and ask good questions to be better for the people around me? You know, I mean, you'll never regret that investment in yourself. And so, um, I really view it as. It doesn't have to be your career. It can just be a really strong foundational skill set that serves you in so many other ways.

14:35
Question
What is one word that describes your experience as a successful coach?

14:46
Michael Lopez
Rewarding, uh, really has been. I think I said it earlier. It's just been great to, um, give to folks in ways. Um, and let's be frank. I mean, I, you know, you. We get something out of it when we know we've helped somebody, right? We get the. The. The butterflies and the dopamine hits and all those things that go with the satisfaction of a job well done. But, But I think when you hear somebody say, thank you, um, for helping me through that experience, um, you know, that's what it's all about. So I think rewarding has been the best word to describe it.

15:22
Question
What programs are you offering that you'd like to share?

15:43
Michael Lopez
Yeah, um, I, uh, I've just released a book. Uh, it's called Change 6 Science Backed Strategies to transform your brain, body and behavior. And you know what's funny is in the back of that book, um, there's actually a chapter I talk about three questions that'll change your life. And they are questions much like my coaching orientation. Right. It's, it's about the power of a well placed question and then your ability to really, um, answer that honestly. And you know, the book is about the science of change and what happens to us when we set goals and pursue goals and give up on goals and start again and all of those experiences. And I think for me, you know, I would ask people if they're interested in coaching or in change. The, the concepts are very applicable, um, because it really is, you know, coaching is about giving people and uncovering the tools for their own growth. And they're growing because they're either struggling with something they want to stop or pursuing something they want to gain. Right. And that's all about change. And so I would say, um, please check out the book. It's available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, all the big places. You can find a link to it on my website. Um, there's a workbook that goes along with that, that's a great coaching resource as well to do kind of right along as you read the book, you can write down some goals and kind of use some of the frameworks in. But, um, yeah, I would just encourage people to take a look at that. Uh, you know, I do have a few coaching clients as well that I take a handful of and I'm always open to talking to people if they're looking for a coach. Um, I sort of do it on the side, maybe a bit more of like individual work. But, uh, it's work that I want to keep doing. Uh, and so if someone's interested in that, we'd be happy to reach out. There's a million ways to contact me. You can schedule 15 minutes on my website and send me an email and all that stuff.

17:35
Question
What is the best way for someone to find you?

17:39
Michael Lopez
Yeah, so my website is a great place, Michael, uh, J. Lopez coach. All of my social links are on there. Um, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn. I'm active on Instagram.

17:52
Michael Lopez
I now have a YouTube channel, Michael J. Lopez Nine, which has, um, some videos that I've been doing. I've started a Little podcast on LinkedIn every week. Um, with some other folks in the Top Voice community which I'm a part of. So, uh, yeah, starting with the website's an easy place to branch out. Um, if you search on LinkedIn, I'll be easy to find. And uh, same with Instagram and that sort of thing. I'm not as active on X, um, Facebook. Uh, I am a little bit more of my kind of life altogether. But uh, yeah, those are great places to start and, and uh, I would encourage you to go there.

18:28
Question
Anything else that you want to add?

18:32
Michael Lopez
Just want to say thank you to the folks in the program and uh, to all the instructors and my classmates and really, um, you know, it is a program where you give to each other and it's only possible because of the work that those folks do. So. Super grateful. It uh, was a great experience and just want to say thank you.

 

Michael Brasher, PhD, is a leadership coach specializing in men’s emotional intelligence, relational growth, and breaking generational cycles. With a doctorate focused on power, conflict, and transformation, he helps men develop the self-awareness, emotional mastery, and communication skills they need to lead—at work, in their families, and in their communities.
Michael’s coaching blends deep inner work with practical leadership strategies, guiding men to unlearn outdated conditioning, heal unresolved emotional wounds, and show up with confidence in every area of life. Whether coaching high-performing executives, fathers striving to be more present, or men navigating personal transitions, he helps his clients step into leadership that is both powerful and deeply human.
Follow me @lifeunboundcoaching on all socials
Website: www.lifeunboundcoaching.com
Free Breaking the Cycle Quiz for Dads: https://michael-kheoaxc7.scoreapp.com
Book Club Waitlist: https://michael-8rog9g6j.scoreapp.com

00:03
Laurel Elders
Welcome to business Success for coaches 2025 mastermind kickoff. Your hosts today are myself, Laurel Elders, founder and CEO of the Institute for Integrative Intelligence, and coach Tabitha Danlo. Tabitha is a senior faculty coach at the school, and she is our resident expert in business launch for coaches and beyond, actually, just business in general. Welcome, Tabitha.

00:32
Tabitha Danloe
I'm so happy to be here. Thanks, Laurel.

00:35
Laurel Elders
Yeah, we have been wanting to do this for a while because we saw the need, uh, for group process and how group process helps people elevate in just such a more empowered way. So I'm really excited to dive into this today.

00:52
Tabitha Danloe
Me too. I'm glad we finally made it.

00:56
Laurel Elders
So this year, for those of you tuning in, Tabitha and I are empowering new coaches to successfully launch their coaching business and create a legacy of inspiration with their business practice. So today, we're going to be discussing what it takes to map out a successful launch. And, you know, really, um, our desire to support coaches is what is fueling this conversation. And it's so. I feel like it's such an important conversation because considering marketing for coaches, you know, there's a lot of coaches that I've talked to. Well, there's three things that come up for me. One is, I hear so many coaches, myself included, when I started, we just have this, like, I just want to coach. I really don't like marketing. I don't like the idea of it. I don't want to do it. I just want to coach. Um, so we see that a lot. If you're in that boat, that's very common also, because coaching can be so misunderstood. To succeed as a coach, you have to market in unique ways and understand what that entails. And that can feel daunting and kind of nebulous, like, you know, what do I need to do? And then the third thing that comes up is most coaches don't realize that their coaching skills can translate into their marketing, making it much more effortless. So connecting those dots can feel like a huge relief. Sigh of relief. Yeah.

02:37
Tabitha Danloe
Love that. Yes. And I think sales is, like, a dirty word, right? So sales to this marketing conundrum. And sales is this, like, bad dirty word. And it's just what you said. Sales doesn't have to be what you think it is. It can be really beautiful, and it can be an invitation. Um, and so your coaching skills are everything. You need to actually be really good at marketing and sales for your business.

03:03
Laurel Elders
So that's. That's a really good point. And, you know, I can empathize because, you know, Marketing done unethically on, you know, unwell comes across as smarmy. We've all had that experience. And so it makes sense to me that there is that. I know I had that when I was starting. I'm like, I don't want to be pushy. I don't want to be all these things that I was seeing happening in the marketing sales area. And the truth is, marketing doesn't have to feel overwhelming, confusing, smarmy. It can be done well. It can be fun. It can be authentic. It could be non salesy and organic. So that's the good news that we want to share with you today.

03:48
Tabitha Danloe
And I would just add that, like, because marketing is truly an important aspect of running a successful business. We have to find something that feels good for you or you're not going to do it. Right. That consistency matters. So the authentic finding that authentic joy in marketing is possible because there's thousands of ways to do marketing. But we just got to find what really resonates with each coach.

04:15
Laurel Elders
That's so true. I'm so glad you brought that up because I had this epiphany the other day. Like, success in any area. Leadership, business, parenting. Success is math.

04:30
Tabitha Danloe
Oh, say more.

04:31
Laurel Elders
Success is math. You're only two to three formulas away from a prosperous new outcome.

04:37
Tabitha Danloe
Ooh, I like that.

04:38
Laurel Elders
Okay, now the other side to that is other people's success formulas may not work for you. Like what you were just talking about.

04:48
Tabitha Danloe
Yes. That's so true. Yes. Okay.

04:50
Laurel Elders
Yeah. So finding a program, a coach, a process that knows that is huge. So many people are teaching. This is what worked for me.

05:01
Tabitha Danloe
Yeah.

05:01
Laurel Elders
Follow my process, and then maybe anybody that's like them might succeed, but we're seeing a lot of that too.

05:09
Tabitha Danloe
Oh, yeah.

05:09
Laurel Elders
Yeah.

05:10
Tabitha Danloe
It's like, okay, if you have the same personality, if you are an extrovert or an introvert like them, if you, you know, have similar values, core value. Like, there's so many things that would have to magically stars align to probably have the same results as that person. Yep.

05:25
Laurel Elders
Yeah. So true.

05:26
Tabitha Danloe
I love that, that math equation. Good one, Laurel. I like it.

05:31
Laurel Elders
Um, I'm curious though, how. How do you feel about. You, uh, know when you teach people the formulas to succeed, but then you coach them on making it personal to them. Just curious if you want to share more about, like, what are. What are you seeing?

05:47
Tabitha Danloe
Yeah. So I have been a Coach now almost 10 years. Laurel. Can you believe that? Because Laurel was my first instructor. So I love that. And I've worked with mostly businesses Mostly coaches. Um, I do a lot of helping coaches launch. And so one of my gifts is seeing patterns. And so for me, what I feel like more of my, you know, helping someone with marketing, sales and business is showing them the formula. Like I love this metaphor we're using because I do see patterns. And I'm thinking of actually yesterday I was teaching a group of people some formulas of hey, it's, it's usually this or this, it's usually this or this, right? We were actually talking about income producing activities and non income producing activities. Meaning what are the things, what are the behaviors and the actions I'm doing on a daily basis, a weekly basis, that, that actually are, uh, creating income for my business that are actually bringing in clients for my coaching practice. And the non income producing activities are so important, but they don't actually drive income such as filing paperwork, such as taking notes, such as a lot of the administrative tasks that bookkeeping. Like you have to do it, it has to get done. Maybe you don't have to do it by the way, but it does need to get done. But there's, there's a lot of times where I'm saying like this or this is what I found works the most for people right now. Let's look at you. What aligns, what feels good in those two or three options that stays in your authenticity, that feels like something you can duplicate on a daily basis or weekly basis, depending on what it is. Because that's the thing with marketing and sales and growing. A practice of any kind is consistency. That's always going to be what will work more than, you know, a lot of activity, nothing. You know, okay, let's do a lot. Oh, uh, taking a break for a month and you won't see the same results. So I feel like that's the piece of being a coach. Like the true essence of being a coach is my belief that all of my clients have this connection to something greater, to wisdom, to, I don't know, divine guidance perhaps. Um, and it's intuition, it's something more that will guide that process. So my job is sometimes say, hey, here's these really broad things that work for most people. This tends to work more for introverts, this tends to work more for extroverts. I figured out a lot of those patterns. Now I want them to self identify and, and be willing to be a little brave, maybe try some things that are a little, little scary, not too scary, but a little bit, and find that authentic path of what really resonates, what they feel Intuitively called to do. Let's do it, let's try it. And we can tweak things as we go to amplify it. Mhm.

09:01
Laurel Elders
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I love that you touched upon, you know, the introvert extrovert. That really speaks to the unique success formula that we all have. Um, I was just reflecting the other day that. So I graduated from my first Coach training in 2005. This year's 20 years. Yes, I know. Amazing. And I remember, like, I graduated, I was so excited because I was head over heels in love with coaching. I had no clue it existed. And when I found it, I was like, this is it. I love this. And then crickets. And as an introvert, that was really devastating. I just wanted to hang my hat and say, I'm a coach now and how open for business. And it doesn't quite work that way because in coaching, you know, it can be misunderstood. So I went back to learn the marketing pieces, but I did it the hard way without even knowing it. I was trying to read blogs, I was trying to sign up for all those free one hour seminars. I was like grabbing different books. And then I ended up feeling even more confused. Um, and then I slowly began to inch my way into some success. But it wasn't until I invested in education and learning the formulas and then meeting coaches like you who were like, hey, I know the marketing side. And then also, um, I want to give a shout out to Mark Silver of Heart of Business. Like he was huge in helping me feel authentic as well.

10:36
Tabitha Danloe
Yeah, that was very empowering for you. Yes.

10:39
Laurel Elders
Yeah. So all of those things helped me get to that point where it was more sustainable because I had learned that as an introvert, I can write, I don't have to go speak. But when I was signing up for BNI and speaking on a regular basis, I was exhausted and I was getting clients and I was exhausted. So we don't have to do it that way. Right. That you can create that sustainable success according to your unique success formula. M. I think that's really important for coaches to know.

11:12
Tabitha Danloe
Yeah. And I want to tie into something you said earlier about like, your coaching skills are everything you kind of need. I think we just have to unlock that and help people see that perspective. Most coaches have been trained in some type of personality training. I know at our school we focus on the Enneagram. We love the Enneagram. Um, I definitely am a giant Enneagram nerd. But oftentimes when I'm looking at marketing, I'm Pulling in five different personality frameworks in my brain, I'm looking at strength finders, Enneagram Disc, Myers Briggs and human design. Even a little bit. Not a ton. But there's elements to all these things that I think through these formulas of like, okay, uh, what you just said about energy is so important. It worked. But you were exhausting, exhausted. And by the way, guys, I saw her at one of these BNI things one time and I. I was like, who is this person? Like, I. I've. I've never seen you so drained.

12:17
Laurel Elders
Yeah. Tabitha invited me to a meeting. It was years after I'd said no to. To marketing in person. And I was like, okay, I'll go. And she's like, oh, I'm so sorry. Never do that.

12:27
Tabitha Danloe
I was like. And, you know, I knew it wasn't going to be her main jam, but I was, you know, we're really good friends. And I was like, oh, you know, come hang afternoon, you can tell which one's the extrovert and which one's the introvert. I was just like, I'm so sorry. We got back in the car and that was a good lesson for me. You know, this was 10 years ago, so I've continued to learn and grow and refine my formulas. I was like, yeah, we really have to honor people's, like, inherent design and authenticity and just how they were made to walk through this world. And there is a solution to everyone. For everyone.

13:05
Laurel Elders
Yeah, do that.

13:07
Tabitha Danloe
If your dream is to be a coach and to. And my goodness, does this world need coaches. So, please, we need you to be out in the world doing what you do best. But there is a way to do that successfully, with joy and maybe a little fear as you're learning some things, but, uh, not a ton of fear and in total alignment with who you already are, who you're supposed to be on this planet.

13:31
Laurel Elders
Yeah, no, that's well said because you do. Anytime we want a new outcome, we do have to grow and stretch a new race.

13:37
Tabitha Danloe
Right.

13:38
Laurel Elders
We're not just gonna. It's not like a plug and play. There is efforting and. But it's intentional efforting. It's authentic efforting, you know, and that. That makes a huge difference on the. The drain level. So it doesn't have to be draining. It can be inspiring, but still maybe push you a little bit into new territories.

13:59
Tabitha Danloe
Yeah. And again, checking back in with your intuition if someone's inviting you to do something that you already know is not in alignment. That's where as coaches, we already Have a step ahead of other, uh, people to know. This is wisdom we must listen to. Yeah, right. And my job sometimes again is to lay out options and say, hey, here's your menu. Here's what typically works the best. And maybe we're going to invent something new today. I love that. Right. You know, maybe we take a little from column A, a little from column B and like, this really fits this coach. And now they're just like on fire, you know, creating a lot of, of sales and marketing for their businesses. But if I'm presenting a menu and this thing sounds really disgusting, let's not even worry about that. Like, uh, let's look at the menu and be like, ooh, this, this really lit me up, Tabitha. Oh, this. Okay, this feels good. Little scary, but like excited scary. Right? Like, we're growing, we're pushing, but not like, oh, I'm not. I want to do that one. Yeah, let's not waste time on that because that's something I see is people waste a lot of time and a lot of money, uh, on these programs that are guarantees we'll make you six figures. And it's like, there's not a one size fits all.

15:23
Laurel Elders
Yeah. It's following someone else's formula. So I think, you know, the other reason why I'm really excited about this group process is because a mistake that I see a lot of coaches make is they, they try something and if it doesn't work, they immediately pivot to something new and they hop from thing to thing to thing and nothing is working. And then they feel exhausted from that. And success takes intentionality, accountability to take a step. Oh, that didn't work. Let me pivot, not let me change my entire strategy and redo my website and redo my message. And now I've got to redo my branding. I've seen some of that hopping, really, um, create some exhaustion. So, um, it's really about with group process. It's taking a step, seeing what works, keep what works. Then you pivot to something else, see what works, and you keep doing that and you edge into success. So it's not overnight. And therefore we decided to do a six month support because we want to see, you're going to plant seeds, you're going to water those seeds, you're going to plant some more seeds, you're going to water those seeds, and before you know it, as a group, you're going to see growth together. And that's. Once you get that growth going, it can continue to grow because you found something that works for you. And I'm so excited about sustainable success. You know, we teach that in coaching all the time. We don't want our clients to just leave a session and go, yay, I had an epiphany. That's great. We love those moments.

16:56
Tabitha Danloe
They're fun.

16:56
Laurel Elders
That's not the goal. The goal is sustainable success where you don't have to come back and relearn things so you can keep going.

17:05
Tabitha Danloe
Absolutely. Um, I resonate so much with so much of what you're saying. I think of this idea of when people jump from thing to thing and again, that's not the consistency. And one of the things that I love to teach, and I'll just let my nerd flag fly here, is like looking at some of the data behind the marketing and sales you're doing, which is not anything that most people are taught. This is definitely a skill that you need to learn. And it doesn't have to be hard, it doesn't have to be scary. If you're like, tab, I don't do math. Tab, I don't do spreadsheets. That's fine, we'll find a way that works for you.

17:42
Laurel Elders
But Laurel said math is success. Success is math. Well, it's, it's easy math. It's easy math, what you're talking about. You can look at metrics.

17:52
Tabitha Danloe
Yeah, exactly. So like data analytics. Metrics can be a lot of math and information. I, uh, really love it. But it also doesn't have to be scary. It can be easy math, which we're talking about. And that informs some of those pivots that you're talking about. And so having it in a group, sometimes we don't have the luxury of a, ah, year's worth of data to look at. But in the six month container, what I'm hoping we'll get is some actual data analytics from peers and from colleagues to be like, um, here's what this looked like for me, here's what this felt like for me, and here's what I would have liked to have seen differently. Here's how I would have felt welcomed in more to your marketing message. So we have real people, real users to test essentially, um, before you maybe actually put it out to the market, before you go out and share it with potential clients. You have some buddies to test a little bit safely. And that data is absolutely just so critical. I think, uh, especially with how much we're just inundated with things every day, it's really easy to just jump to something new because that's the newest thing on Instagram or TikTok that we're seeing. Right. And it's. Yeah, maybe that's not actually creating success. Sustainable success.

19:16
Laurel Elders
Right? Yeah, I've experienced that where I just felt discombobulated and more confused because it wasn't like a step by step process. It was so disjointed.

19:25
Tabitha Danloe
And I love, I love, um, sharing the idea of the phases of business because I think people know this in the back of their head, but like, maybe they don't know it in their conscious part of their brain. We have startup phase. That's where everyone has to start.

19:43
Laurel Elders
Are you ready? So in the program it's called are you ready?

19:46
Tabitha Danloe
Are you ready? Yeah. And then we have like systems, which is getting some systems in place because if say we go from 0 to 100 overnight, that's not sustainable, which is what Laurel just said. And that's not what we're here to do. Right. And so set, which is the second part is the systems. And we're going to do a lot with systems and planning and structure. And for some people that sounds like really calming. I think for some people they're like, oh, that sounds like the boring part. So it depends on the person, but I promise we'll make it fun. But that there's a lot of comfort, there's a lot of ease if we actually set things correctly in the foundation. Because what happens next in launch. So we're ready, set launch is we're in that scaling portion. So now we're okay, we built our foundation of the house, we now put in some scaffolding. So I think of systems as my scaffolding. And now we're ready to scale, which is like building on the next stories. Well, if we just go from foundation to skyscraper and we didn't put in scaffolding or like an elevator to get down, that's. That's mhm. We call that vertical growth. And that seems really exciting at first. And it's completely unsustainable. That is 100 where burnout happens 100%. Where mistakes start to get made, critical errors start to get made. That's also sometimes where ego comes into play. And we get so into the next, the next chase, the next success, the next sale that I feel like if people haven't built in their systems, they get caught in the adrenaline rush and it's not sustainable. And that is the fourth and final stage that we're going for is sustain.

21:44
Laurel Elders
Mhm.

21:44
Tabitha Danloe
That's where every business owner hopes to get, whether they realize it or not. Have I built something that will feed my family, give us financial abundance, give me time and freedom, give me this dream that I hoped that this would give me. And from here to here, we kind of get lost along the way sometimes.

22:05
Laurel Elders
Yeah, I'm really.

22:07
Tabitha Danloe
My vision for this container is a really clear path of, um, we're all doing this together and we know exactly where we want to go and we're going to hold each other accountable and we're going to hold hands and we're going to do it together and we're going to support each other. Um, because this is where some really cool magic can happen too. This is where we can talk about legacy and how we're going to leave this earth a little bit better maybe than how we found it.

22:33
Laurel Elders
Yeah. Yeah. And coaches are a really profound part of that. I mean, it's, it's really transformational to see. Yeah.

22:43
Tabitha Danloe
And I'll just say this one last thing. You as coaches, learning these phases and learning this walk to sustainability, whether you're going to do business coaching, life coaching, leadership coaching, it doesn't really matter because these phases exist in life in all these different ways, not just in business. Right. Parenthood, um, as you're growing with your, your family in different ways, uh, phases of your life, your career, retirement. Right. There's, there's a reflection of all these phases that we all walk as paths. And so as coaches, you are going to support people somehow on this path. You walking through it yourself will simply make you an even better coach than you already are today.

23:31
Laurel Elders
Mhm. Yeah. Really, really well put. It's so, so true. So the good news is that if you are launching this year or you've started to launch and you're just not, it's just not working well, we invite you to join us because you don't have to do it alone. You don't have to learn the hard way. And you can have the guidance and support to create your unique success system. And that is huge. I wish I'd had that when I was first starting out. So this year we're going to be teaching the exact formulas to apply the exact steps to take and end the proper sequence, like Tabitha said, um, so that you're not having to go back and rework things later, which is very, I mean, again, I wish I had known that sooner and really also receive personalized support throughout the whole process. We're going to hop on one more call in the next coming weeks and we're going to also talk about who this mastermind is. For and who it's not for. This group is not for everyone. And we, in order to keep the quality really high touch because that's what we are about at the school. We're going to be helping 10 coaches to launch this year and walk them through this process together. We're all going to be together. So we kick off April 21st is when doors close in 2025. However, if we fill the 10 spots before April 21st, we are going to close the doors at that time. So if this is something you're interested in, you can check out the program. The webpage is live. We're going to put the links below. And, um, the other thing is, if you sign up before March 24, early registration saves us a lot of time and energy. So we want to pass that on to you. And it comes with a $297 discount for the entire six months. It actually ends up being a little bit longer than six months because we're with you. Um, we get you started right away once you sign up. So look for those links. And I hope you have enjoyed this conversation. I hope it has illuminated your path in some way today and hope to see you on our next call.

25:58
Tabitha Danloe
Thank you, Laurel. Thanks, everybody.

26:00
Laurel Elders
Thank you.

26:01
Tabitha Danloe
Bye.