|
Laurel Elders:
Welcome everyone, to Coffee, Coaching and Callings, a live podcast created for coaches, leaders, and helping professionals that are on a mission to lead a successful and heart centered life. I'm your host today, Laurel Elders of the Institute for Integrative Intelligence, where it's our mission to elevate human potential through the art and the science of masterful coaching. Today, we will be focusing on business success tips with Kindra Maples. I'm so excited to talk to you today, Kindra! Kindra is the founder of The Culture Crush Business and the energetic host of the Culture Crush Business podcast, which launched in 2020 and has hit 1 million listens. At the one year mark, she took the next step to start the Culture Crush Business, a hub for company culture resources. It supports companies and leaders by bringing the resources for improving company culture into one location. Today we are going to be talking about the impact of culture on organizational success. Welcome, Kindra. Kindra Maples: Hello. I'm so excited to be here with you today! Laurel Elders: Yes, we met through Conscious Capitalism, Arizona, and then reconnected through Kelly, our mutual... Kindra Maples: Yeah. Which is fun too, because Kelly used to work out of the Mac Six space. And I told you that's where I am sitting today while we record the podcast. Laurel Elders: Yeah, I love that. So to kick us off, let's get on the same page. How would you define company culture? Kindra Maples: It is definitely a difficult thing to narrow down sometimes because so much of the culture is what is unseen. So things like valuing people, treating them as humans, trust building, that stuff you can't necessarily see when you walk into a building. Right. And so a lot of to me, what culture is, is a lot of the unseen. It's how you're treating your team, how you're working with your team, how you're building with your team, and the actions that go around with all of that. Laurel Elders: I was talking to a colleague of mine. She's also an executive coach. And we're talking about how sometimes the culture just creates itself, if we're not conscious. Yeah, I'd love to hear thoughts on that or experience. Kindra Maples: Yeah, there's a company I'm actually working with right now, and when we initially met and we're going through kind of the intro and how going to work with an evaluation that we do. In the very beginning, the CEO said, well, we don't really have a culture. I said, oh, you do, you just don't know what it is. There's a culture whenever you put multiple people together. You and I together in this conversation, we're going to build our very own culture. When you go to a networking event, right. How many times have you ever gone to a networking event and you can go to an event where maybe the setup and the structure is the same, but the feel is just different. The people are different because those events all have a culture. When you go to family reunions, when you just go to visit family and you put everybody in one room. My family culture is very different than someone else's family culture. It's loud, it's rambunctious, it's energetic. Right? So you're going to have a culture the moment you put multiple people together in a room. And so I thought it was really cute when the CEO said, we don't have a culture, and I'm like, you do. And then as we went in and we did the assessment and we evaluated their culture, I found the reason why she didn't think they had a culture was because the culture was tied to her. She was a very key point in the culture of the company. And it was a great culture. It still is. They're growing, but we need to help them. We're in the process of helping them right now grow their culture so that if she is removed, the culture can still thrive. Because there's been a lot of cases with companies in the past where the CEO, the founder, they are the culture. And the moment they leave, a company turns to garbage. Or maybe it thrives, but in a different way because the culture is tied to that person. And so the moment you put people together, there's a culture. And you just have to see and feel and define it. And to your point, right. Be intentional about it too. It's not that if you compare two companies and somebody from one company moves to the next company. It's not that that company might be bad, it just might not be a great culture fit for them, right. You could have two companies that do the same thing. But the people and how you're intentional about growing it is going to define what changes and what shifts in those cultures. Laurel Elders: I love that. What are your thoughts on the balance? If it is a balance, between being intentional about it and kind of letting the company, um, I guess, attract the culture? Kindra Maples: Yeah. I think there's a little bit of both, right. I don't know if it is a balance, right. But it definitely is both. And I'll even throw another piece in there. There's the culture and how it's naturally going to build with the people that you're hiring and who you're putting in place. There's the culture that you can help grow by finding the resources or, right, coming to us, will provide those resources that are going to help you build the culture, build the connection, build how you value each other. You trust each other. And then the third piece is the leadership. It's the CEO. The founder. Their influence on the culture is extremely important. And going back to what I mentioned before, right? Being intentional about growing in a way where they have the influence, but the culture isn't dependent on them. But it has to come from them. It has to come from leadership. It can't come from middle manager that really wants to grow the company, that's great. They're going to grow their team. They're not going to necessarily influence the entire company. So, to your point, it's kind of those pieces. There's a little bit that's going to naturally happen. And then there is a piece that has to be intentional about the resources and the influence that you provide to your staff. Laurel Elders: Yeah, that absolutely makes sense. What role do you see culture playing in overall organizational success? Kindra Maples: It plays a role in literally every piece of the company. It truly does. When it's tied to, for example, that company I mentioned, right? Culture is very tied to that CEO. If that CEO were to leave right now, the culture would not stay strong because she's tied to it so much. If a company, um, if you have... I have so many different ideas right now with this. But the culture is so tied to all of the different pieces. And now I'm so excited, and now I'm forgetting your question. Laurel Elders: So organizational success. Kindra Maples: Yeah, it's every piece. So, you talk about it with the CEO. If the CEO leaves, it's tied to them. And then when you look at every other piece and every other section of culture, right. Look at the marketing piece. They have to know the culture. They have to know the company. If they're going to market and tell the story. Look at the recruiting piece. Your team is going to be your best set of recruiters. They're going to tell their friends and family. They're going to tell them the real stuff. If they're telling them the real stuff that's not good, then that's going to affect your recruiting efforts. When it comes to then retention, keeping people, especially right now, there's still this battle of in-person, remote, what's best? Again, it really depends on the company. What's the company providing that flexibility. These younger, newer generations that are coming into the workforce. They're not playing these games anymore. And if it's not a company that supports them and their growth and their flexibility for them to do things outside of work too. Well, again, that's going to affect the recruitment. And now we've talked about recruitment, retention, marketing. If you have that much turnover, well, there goes your bottom line. Your bottom line is now garbage because you're spending so much money on hiring and training. So it really does affect every piece of the company. Um, there's another piece I'll throw out. There's a company we're partnering with right now that focuses on the mental health side. Your culture at your company. If you're not taking care of your staff as humans, as people, you might think it's outside of work, right? They're fine. Whatever's happening outside of work is coming with them into work too. And so if you're not providing the mental health resources to try and improve their outside life with their inside life. Well, then, right there, now you're covering medical. Right now, you're paying for all of the bills and the doctor's appointments. So then again, it's a cost. And so it really affects all of these different areas from the very beginning onboarding somebody to offboarding somebody and who they're going to go talk to about the company, and literally everything in between. Laurel Elders: Wow. I think I just had a big epiphany, as you were, all of that. I was just thinking how there's so much benefit to human beings being in community, and your work is your community, like what you enter into every day. What a huge impact it has on us. Kindra Maples: Yeah. Laurel Elders: Mentally, emotionally, all of it. Kindra Maples: Yeah, it's no longer. I mean, I think about my dad, and I've said this a thousand times to folks. I think about my dad. My dad used to work as a frame technician. He worked on cars. And so he was the one that when you got into a car accident, he put the vehicle on the frame and he stretched it and he moved it. If it was salvageable, to measure it back to where it needed to be. That was his job, right. He can't do his job remote. It can't be a flex work schedule. Right. But going in and doing that job and the companies that he worked for. I guarantee my dad didn't like his job. But he did it because he had to. He had to put food on the table for our family. And I could see the stress that it caused him. And now fast forward, we're having these conversations about culture, about mental health, about inclusion. And we're having these conversations on a more frequent basis. And now there's no excuse for companies, really. I mean, the support is out there. They just have to take the initiative to utilize it. Laurel Elders: Yeah. So true. And I know you and I had spoken about how one of our passions at the Institute is helping companies create a coaching culture and what a positive impact that is having. It's starting to get some wings, the coaching culture, as the research comes out and is showing how the companies with that culture are standing out. I'm just curious because it's so, kind of in its infancy if you compare it to other approaches that have come through. Curious if you've come across any coaching cultures? Kindra Maples: Um, not too many. A lot of companies, I feel like they start with other types of structure, like EOS systems and things like that, to help put the pieces together. And then there's only been a couple where I've started to see more of this coaching influence. And a lot of it is connecting them with resources like you, right. With some of the companies, I mean, a lot of the companies we've worked with, they don't necessarily know the resources, that are out there that they don't know, right. You don't know what you don't know. And so this being, like you said, kind of a new technique, it is now in our hands to be able to share it with more companies so that they do understand that this is a total new direction that they could go in that could amplify their business and their culture even more by allowing that coaching piece to be in the fiber of the company. So I haven't seen it too too much, which is why I was so excited when you and I had the chance to reconnect, because now I get to take everything that you're doing and I get to go and I get to share it with everybody else now. Laurel Elders: I love it. So beyond the coaching culture, I'm just curious, what resources do you see are really benefiting companies right now in terms of having that culture shift? Kindra Maples: Yeah. One of them along the lines of what you're doing. Right. We can go in and we have resources that help with a one time thing. Maybe it's education for diversity, inclusion, accessibility. That's a big space for topics right now. Mental health is a big space of topics right now. We can go in and we can do all of this, but there's a follow up that's needed. And myself and my team will do some of that follow up, but there's a little more when it comes to day to day support. And so that's why I love when we have coaches on our platform and like you, we can refer to you so that they have that support system. Right. Think about it. In any other area of life, when you're a kid and you learn how to play soccer, do you have one lesson and then you just go play and you're a rock star? No. You have a coach that's working with you, right? If you're going to the doctor and you're trying to figure out something that's going on, is it one visit to the doctor? They're like, Here you go, figure it. Okay, you're all done. No. You continue to go to the doctor, right. A financial advisor. Do you meet with the financial advisor? And they're like, boom, here you go, move on with life and nothing will change. No. So we have these coaches in all areas of our life, and a lot of it was when we were younger, and then at some point, it just stopped. And so getting back into the understanding of needing somebody that's going to guide you, support you, and kind of hold your hand for a little bit, right, to get them to the points that they need to be. That's a big piece in the culture space. Some other resources have to do a lot with mental health right now. How can we provide the mental health resources so that people can do some things that are going to take them off depression and anxiety meds. There's a couple of resources right now, one that's called NeuroGen brain balancing. It's crazy. I'll send you the link. They've actually made extreme strides to get people off medicines for anxiety, depression, PTSD, all kinds of stuff. So helping them as a person, right? And then when they go back to work, that's a direct influence on the culture of the company. There's another company we partnered with that does Ketamine assisted therapy. And it's amazing how a couple of these sessions then can actually get somebody, again, off all of these meds. There's resources that we have that focus on communication. That's huge. I have a problem communicating just in my own household. I can't tell you how many times I've sent a text message and the response back is, Are you mad? What? I'm not mad. So the resources that we have for communication, that's another huge space, because one miscommunication is going to throw everybody off. And then how do you deal with that miscommunication? So we have some resources to help with coming into meetings, helping run meetings, facilitate meetings, helping connect the team together so that there's trust. So that you can have an open communication, right? And so I'd say those are kind of the main areas right now. The communication, the mental health, and then the coaching side where those resources are out there. Companies sometimes just don't know. And so how do we connect companies to the resources that they need and the resources that are the right match for them. Because one resource that works for one company might not be the best fit for another company, right? Same thing with the financial advisor, right? The financial advisor. If you've got high dollars, you maybe need a different financial advisor than a college kid that's just learning, right? There's different resources that are better matches for companies and they're there. It's just a matter of sharing them with companies. Laurel Elders: I love that. In the coaching world, we say every single human being and company has their own unique success formula. Period. Dot. So getting them what they're actually needing. And how about if somebody's listening in a leader or a company, um, business owner, and they're wondering, this sounds great, where do I start? It just seems so big, right? Culture. Kindra Maples: It does seem big. Um, again, it's so nice that we are having these conversations. I was that. From middle manager to executive that was trying to improve culture, and I was Googling stuff. I was Googling DEI. And nowadays, right, we say it as if it's its own word. Like companies don't even know what that middle letter is sometimes, right? And so it's more of a conversation now so that we don't have to just Google. We don't have to ask chat GPT, right? The resources are there. It's just a matter of getting them. And that's why I started this company, is so that the resources are all in one place. I don't have to be the person building a company on mental health and diversity and inclusion. I don't have to be the expert in a thousand areas. My space of expertise is connection. And so we are very much a hub. So when companies are listening and leaders are listening and they're like, this sounds great, oh my gosh, where do I start? We start with an initial assessment. We'll do a quick chat, right? Make sure it's a good fit. Then we'll actually do a deep dive evaluation. So, that evaluation is eight different areas. Those are the areas that we have resources so that we can start to find the pieces. Because most of the time, some of these companies are doing great and there just might be one thing that's off that's really influencing the culture of the company. And so we do that assessment, we do the evaluation, then we put the plan together. What's the plan that's going to target the areas that they need? And to your point, right, every company has their own solution. I cannot give the same formula to ten different companies and have them succeed. One company may have communication issues. One company may have issues where they need resources for mental health. One might need to add some diversity. They're all going to have their own equation, right? So we do the assessment, we put together the plan. Who are the partners that are going to come into play? Essentially, they're the puzzle pieces that are going to fill those gaps for the company. And then we move on to that stage of thriving to help that company really transform their workplace. And then I follow up on both ends. I follow up with the company, I follow up with the resources. So we're continuously vetting everybody, making sure that the resources we're providing are good partners and so are the companies that are using these resources. And I say that because there are some companies out there that, I'll be honest, they don't want to work with. If they don't see that there's a problem, right? If it's just the company staff maybe saying, hey, this is such a horrible company, how can we improve, blah, blah, blah. If it's not leadership and it's not executives and board members and everybody on board with the need to improve, then it's not going to. And so, at least for me, right there's, that balance of everybody has really got to be bought in for us to really help. And that's what will take it to that thriving. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Oh, it's so true. Transformation takes willingness. If there's no willingness, it's like... Kindra Maples: Yeah, yeah Laurel Elders: I love it. So we're on Facebook Live and Kelly said she loves seeing us together. Shout out to you, yay. Kindra Maples: She's another one of these connectors, right? Laurel Elders: Yes! Powerful. Kindra Maples: She knows when she's working with her clients. Those that don't know, Kelly has a company that's all focused on marketing. Although now it's more than marketing, really. So she knows when she's working with the client. Okay, here's the gaps where she can fill. Now, if she starts to work with a company and sees, wow, they have some emotional issues, like, let's figure out what those other resources are, she knows that she can't fill those gaps, so who can? Then we can come in. Right. And so that's the really cool part about these relationships, like Kelly and with you, right. Where we all fill in different pieces, and we're tackling these companies as a whole to be able to put those puzzle pieces back together. Laurel Elders: Yes. So powerful. And I'm curious what called you to this work? Kindra Maples: So my background is actually in animal behavior and training. Laurel Elders: Fascinating! Kindra Maples: Yeah. So back in the day, I was that kid that was like, I want to work with animals. I want to save the planet. And so, I mean, I did part of that. I haven't saved the planet yet. It's still on my bucket list. But I worked with animals and did training for over 15 years. And when I was in that space, it started with just training animals, training them to take care of really their own husbandry. Right. So that I didn't have to.... I could just have them come over to the fence and take some medicine. Then it moved on to helping train other people, to train animals, to then take them out for presentations, to teach the public. And then it turned into more of the operations, the leadership side. And I realized what was happening. I was taking everything I learned training animals, and I just shifted. And I use it with people now. So, compassion, communication, connection, trust, these are all the fundamentals when you're working with an animal that doesn't speak your language. And they're all the same things that transfer when you're working with people. And so that went into, I worked in the operations leadership side for a little while with a couple of companies, and then I say, I had the pleasure to work with some companies that had a phenomenal culture, and I've had the pleasure of working with some that did not. And so that really was the final piece that led me to where I am. Because like I said earlier, I was the one that was searching for resources to help improve culture. And you're Googling this stuff, they're all over they're all over the web. You don't know what you're getting. You don't know if you're getting the right resource. If I went to Google, um, coaching culture. Am I going to get you online? Who knows? Probably not. I might end up with who knows what company just because they paid for some Google space ads, right? And so there wasn't anything really out there. There wasn't a place. It wasn't like I needed something for the house, and I go to Amazon, everything is there. It wasn't it wasn't like that. And so I saw that as a gap. And then along the same timeline, I had a couple of interactions with some leadership that just it wasn't good. They were those companies that I mentioned earlier. They need the help and they won't take the help. Um, and I really just decided, okay, let's start to have the conversation. And that's when it started as a podcast. I had the opportunity, actually, out of Max Six here with Phoenix Business Radio X to do a podcast all on company culture. And after a year of doing that and having the conversations, so many people were coming to me and saying, hey, listening to your podcast, do you have a particular resource that you would recommend for this? Or this, or this? And it just kept happening. And that's when I put all these pieces together for me right to go, huh, they have the same gaps that I had when I was looking for these resources. Let me put them all in one spot. And so now I get to take my skill of being a connector, and now I get to do it on, like, crazy level and make sure that companies have the resources that they need. And I don't have to be the one to be the puzzle piece. There's a puzzle piece out there that they need. And I probably have a connection and a resource. If I don't, at least I'm in that space. I'm going to find it a lot faster than a company that is struggling and trying to Google online. And then it fell into place. And now I'm filling this gap so that companies know when they are in that space and they need that help. They know that they can go to one spot and find all of those resources. Laurel Elders: And reliable resources. Amazing. I was so excited to hear about the business that you pulled together and how fun that it just kind of one thing led to another. It just was like this unfolding for you. Kindra Maples: It really was. And I've had friends for years that have said, Kindra, you should start your own company. I'm like, I don't know what I would do. I kept thinking of it as, like, a thing, like, I don't make anything, I don't knit. What would I do? And this just came and it was all of a sudden this, like, oh, duh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Amazing. I'm so grateful you said yes to what was calling you on this. And if somebody wants to find out more information about your services, where can they find you? Kindra Maples: Yeah, I'm on LinkedIn all over the place. Um, but they can go to the website. It's www.culturecrushbusiness.com and that has contact for us. Podcast stuff, events coming up, all of that. Laurel Elders: Excellent. Thank you so much. This has been so delightful to just sharing this conversation with you because business success is a huge passion of mine, leader success. So thank you. Kindra Maples: Thank you. This has been a blast to just kind of sit and share my end of the story. Usually I'm in your role, and I'm asking the questions. So it's kind of one kind of fun to be the one on the other side, to be able to share everything. So thank you. Laurel Elders: Yes, absolutely. All right, thanks, everybody, for joining us today. We hope these messages have been a lantern to you on your path as you expand your success as a coach, leader, or helping professional. You can join the conversation further at Integrativeintelligence Global. Bye for now.
0 Comments
The Wellness Universe is opening up membership again! They are also seeking ICF trained and certified coaches.
You can sign up to learn more, or register here: https://www.thewellnessuniverse.com/become-wu-world-changer/?ref=laureleldersmcccec Laurel Elders:
Welcome to Coffee Coaching and Callings, a live podcast created for coaches, leaders, and helping professionals that are on a mission to lead a successful and heart centered life. Your hosts today are myself, Laurel Elders, and Dr. Kristen Truman Allen of the Institute for Integrative Intelligence, where our mission is to elevate human potential through the art and the science of Masterful coaching. This week, we are focusing on Coaching Mastery, and today's topic is on subtle distinctions. So this talk will really be geared towards, deepening your coaching skills. If you are already coaching, or if you're just learning coaching, we hope that these conversations will help you deepen sooner. Kristen Truman-Allen: Cheers. Laurel Elders: Yes. So there's so much here, especially I know, Kristen, you've been also studying what we now call Level Three coach training. That Master Certified Coach level. And going through that journey myself, I was so surprised how much I learned on that Level Three training journey. Kristen Truman-Allen: Me too. Yeah, it's surprising, right? You think that you've kind of got it, you have a general understanding, your clients are getting results, and then you take it to this other level and you're thinking, wow, um, what could I do to even make it better for my clients and for me in terms of thinking? And even when you said we're talking about distinctions and you said the art and science of coaching, that's a subtle distinction, too, right? Which I think we'll get to today. The artful piece as well as the science. Laurel Elders: Yes, absolutely. I was thinking, um, and one of the things that we talk about in our coach training is the difference between, um, rational and non rational and irrational. And so rational ways of knowing are more logic, in our mind, we can think things through, but sometimes some of our answers are buried within and our body might give us a prompt as we're thinking something, the body has a different reaction. It doesn't make sense, it's not rational, but yet what just happened. And that's an invitation to go deeper with our clients, and really help them. Kristen Truman-Allen: Yeah. I like to think of it as that linear versus nonlinear. And when you talk about out of left field how can we help our clients find that other space. Find those other answers that don't make sense, but that are being informed by something that got said offhandedly or something that's happening in a body movement or something that's shifted in that energy, that you can hear even if you're not in person, visually. Right? Laurel Elders: Yeah, absolutely. And just to make a distinction, while we're here, we are defining coaching as helping our clients get to their own wisdom. So it's what I call, is second journey coaching, where we take clients, so the first journey is somebody's being shown the way by someone else through guidance or a book or teachings on how to find their potential. So something outside of that person is helping them see new possibilities. But that second journey, where somebody has to find their potential by going within. That's what we're talking about with coaching today, just to clear that up. So really helping somebody locate their own answers, their own wisdom, their own power, nobody can give that to you. And the role the coach plays in that, so how do we show up without bias, in honor of the person that we are coaching? Their wisdom. And that's not necessarily easy to learn, is how to show up completely neutral and not have an opinion of where the client wants to go next. Kristen Truman-Allen: Right. Not just where they're going to go next, but have an opinion about the solutions they're coming up with. Right. So how do we know that bias? It makes me think about our own self awareness. So when we're talking about mastery, we as coaches, have to really be in tune with our own emotional responses and where we're activated, in order to stay neutral. So I'm thinking of you know, those moments where I can feel it, I can feel tugged or, um, energized when a client is saying something that feels connected to my own value or to my own expertise, or what I maybe was thinking might be a good solution based on my intuition. And so I can feel that vibration and that feeling of almost coming out of my seat, like there's something else I want to add, which is not my role as the coach. Right. So having that awareness of what our biases are, is what's coming to me. Right. Like just knowing so that you can manage it. Self manage our emotions. Laurel Elders: Yeah, absolutely. And I hear it in mentor coaching sometimes, too, where the coach gets excited before the client, or the coach might step in and try to help the client and say, "you've got this", and does the pep talk or what we call cheerleading. And you know what's fascinating, that's taking somebody on that first journey is showing somebody the way. But to really take someone on that second journey, the question of how can you get "I've got this" to come from the client. So they feel it, it's coming from them versus the coach supplying something. And that shift of, oh, it just reminds me of if you give someone a fish, you fed them for a day, because it didn't come from.... you know, If you teach someone to fish, you fed them for a lifetime. And to me, coaching is, yeah, it's taking someone deeper into themselves, so then they get to the point where they're like, hey, wait a minute, I've got this, I can do this. But it's coming from within. Nobody had to supply that. Kristen Truman-Allen: Yeah, it really resonated for me when in my mentor coach training, in my MCC training, Carly talked about the neurological response that inflammatory, the endorphin rush, when you have a really good idea, or when you're connected. And we want the client to have that because that's what will drive change, that motivation, that inspired action is where they will have movement and also physiologic insight. And so, that awareness of like, oh, that's happening for me. And then, like you said, how do I, what are the kinds of questions or reflection or acknowledgment that I can do as the coach to help the client access that for themselves and put mine on the side. And let it inform me, but not drive the conversation. Laurel Elders: Right. Right. It's so humbling. I remember, I'm just resonating with what you're saying, because in my own coach training journey and mentoring, I remember times getting off the call, being like, that was, oh, I just felt like I was in my flow. And then I just felt so good getting off the call. Well, I realized, looking back, I was attempting, this is when I was first starting, I was still grasping distinctions, I was doing more mentoring and providing and believing I was cheerleading. So I was getting all the dopamine, right. Like what you were just sharing. And I was thinking about like, oh my gosh, but did the client have that experience? Probably not, because they're trying to play catch up, because the coach is excited. And, and come to find out, that wasn't really coaching. so, You know I think becoming a coach can be such a personal growth journey, too, because we... Becoming a coach, taking someone on that second journey, where we do not provide, the client finds it within themselves. That is a place of humility. Complete honor of the other, and complete acceptance. Like, there's so many ingredients that go into it. Kristen Truman-Allen: So much trust. Laurel Elders: Yeah. And the removing of bias. Powerful. It's really powerful. Kristen Truman-Allen: I'm curious, when we're talking about bias, we've so far been talking about the bias of our own ideas, which I think comes from our own expertise. Where else do you think that bias comes from, as it relates to the coaching conversation? Laurel Elders: Yeah. Something that, I find fascinating is that not all bias could be a negative. So, here's a distinction, since we're talking about subtle distinctions today. In your research with metaphors in coaching, you found, and correct me if I'm wrong, but you found that even if the coach ended up presenting a metaphor, the client could still benefit from that. Is that accurate? Kristen Truman-Allen: Yes. Laurel Elders: So that's fascinating. And sometimes it was client generated. So that, to me, indicates if the coach does bring in a metaphor, that that would be introducing a bias or a lead, and it's not necessarily always a negative. So the question is, when is bias a liability that would hold the session back and when can it be an asset? Kristen Truman-Allen: HM. Yeah. So speaking from a metaphor perspective, I think where it becomes a liability is if the coach is attached. If the coach has a direction or an attachment to where they want the client to go with that metaphor or with the image that comes forward, then it becomes the coach in the way of the client's own progress. So if I've said a metaphor out loud because I'm curious and I'm trying to help them find something, I might notice something that was an intuitive hit. And if I said it, I have to be completely detached and let the client say, actually it's more like this. Right. Or I guess it also could become a liability if we're not careful and we're somehow accidentally coaching someone in trauma, then it could become a trigger. And so we want to have clean language as much as we can and know who our clients are and be in partnership. So if the client can be in that back and forth of, um, actually no, that's not what it is, it's something like this. So an example might be somebody might have said they were stuck. And so I might have said, is it stuck like being in quicksand? They might say, no, it's actually stuck like I'm spinning on a bicycle on ice. Or I'm stuck like, um, I feel rooted like a carrot, or you know what I mean? So if you're in that playful kind of discourse, then there's that distinction of I'm not leading, I'm being curious. And I'm offering some other outside conversation to bring it new ideas coming forward. And the liability is if I'm attached. And if I stay in the metaphor, what I brought forward and it didn't have any energy, they didn't want to go forward with it. It didn't matter then, then now I'm in the way of the client finding their own wisdom. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Well, I was just thinking on the PCC markers 7. 5. So under Evokes Awareness, it's the coach shares and then invites. So my original mentor, Sandy Hogan, she brought this concept of, coaching is the wisdom of both the coach and the client. And that really that helped me because my initial coach training, it was like, it's the client, it's the client, it's the client. I was almost like, oh my gosh, I have to leave everything at the door. Which is true. We do honor the client's wisdom. Everything we're doing is in honor of that wisdom. And if something's popping in intuitively, there might be wisdom to that, I don't know. So if I share something that might pop in and then invite, then the client is included in the dialogue. So I don't know, I'm just going to throw this out there. But if I say, oh, as speaking to the client, as you're sharing this, this visual of, let's say a metaphor, popped in and I share it. But I'm just curious, I don't know if that resonates or has any meaning for you. It puts it back on the client. So, I'm sharing but not putting it into the conversation as this needs to be here. So there's that, take it or leave it. Kristen Truman-Allen: And I think it's important that you honored that. Right. There's something about that and it comes off and comes up. Like you said, that image happens. And I would say probably nine times out of ten, there's something to that image. If you're connected and locked in and in sync with that client. Tthere's some energy that's happened that's a connection. And I've been really surprised at how often there was some magical hit that I have no idea where it came from, right. But trusting the magic and trusting the client to do whatever they want to do with it, if nothing else, like you said, you're sharing and inviting and then, letting it all unfold, however it's going to unfold. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Kristen Truman-Allen: And you were talking about, as we talk about metaphor, there is that piece of the distinction of who, where it comes from. I would always try and let it come from the client first. But also as we're talking about bias, it makes me think of language in general. So, what you might have meant by a specific word is, I might hear it differently based on my own lens, my own bias, my own values. Laurel Elders: Right. Which is very connected to 6. 2 Active Listening explores the Language so I'm not assuming I understand that how the client is using the word is the same way I use a word. Kristen Truman-Allen: Right. Which helps culturally too, right. Because metaphors work in between cultures in a really powerful way. But we have to listen because what words mean, are, they're different. Mhm and so staying in curiosity in order to be aware of our bias and make sure that it's not a liability is important. Laurel Elders: Absolutely. And even being so, having the self awareness that let's say you're a parent and you're coaching another parent, so you assume like, oh, there's some similar language there, but my experience of parenting is not going to be the same as your experience of parenting. Kristen Truman-Allen: Right. And we might be all at different places. Right. Laurel Elders: Yeah. So even in our similarities, being aware that even in our similarities, our biases can slip in there. Kristen Truman-Allen: Right? Yeah. I mean, I'm even noticing even that conversation about parenting, how I'm activated. Right. Because I'm parenting an eight month old, a ten year old, a 13 year old, a 16 year old, and a 27 year old. And so in the conversation with different other parents, I could feel a need to share my own experience in some way or feel like I get it or I'm connected. Which I might be, but I need to check it and also let it be about the client, not about me. Laurel Elders: Yeah. it's so true. And we do talk about, in the coach training, we talk about personal sharing because it can have a place. I'm just curious your thoughts on when it's beneficial. Kristen Truman-Allen: Mhm. Well, I think it's beneficial if you're trying to create relatability, or if.... I recently had a situation where I was working with a client who was sharing and I could tell that there was a hesitance between what they felt like they could share because of a belief system. And so I just asked, would it be useful to share my alignment? And they said yes. So I asked permission and then I shared my alignment and then just let it go. I didn't tell any more stories about that, I just... it was... I don't think in a way of cheerleading, but in a way of relatability and establishing trust. and then it opened up the conversation to really be able to share on a deeper, real, honest level. Which is important when you're going to that second journey, right? We have to be honest and open. Otherwise, if we can't do it in the coaching conversation, we're staying then in the place where we would be limited without the coaching conversation. And the whole point is to break through those barriers, see the possibilities that are 100% all around, all the time. And be able to get to some of that vulnerability. But saying that, I would say if it becomes about me and I'm not clear about why I'm sharing, then that's an inappropriate time. Like, if I'm sharing because I want to be heard, or because I have some healing, or if I am needing to be right, or needing to be an expert, then I've stepped out of the coaching partnership of having the client being trusted and whole and fully 100% honored and capable. Laurel Elders: And that's such a good distinction, I think, or helpful distinction when it comes to taking someone onto that second journey, deeper into themselves, is, if the coach steps in to rescue or provide or do the work for the client. It's almost like, oh, wait, did I forget that? I truly believe that they have their answers. And I'm going to hold that space.. Is I just want to also.... So we are on Facebook Live. I just want to give a shout out to Tara. Hi, Tara. She just, posted some comments. Thank You! Also, I was thinking about, you and I were talking about some subtle distinctions and one of the things that we were talking about is the distinction between leading versus customizing. So, subtle distinctions and also crafting powerful questions for clients. And I just wanted to see if you had any thoughts on that, leading versus customizing. Kristen Truman-Allen: Yeah, I remember even in my MCC or my level three coach training, this came up for me a lot. This, like really figuring out how to be customizing and not leading. Especially if I have an expertise. So, what my mentor said to me was, see if you can inform your customized questions by your expertise, which is hard to do, right, because you don't want to be leading. You're customizing if you're making sure that you're asking a question for the client, not for you. Laurel Elders: Right. Or not for you to be right. Kristen Truman-Allen: Right. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Got you. Kristen Truman-Allen: Or to illustrate some particular point. Right. The questions are for the client. So that distinction of when you're leading, if you're responding to the client and asking a question that expands their awareness or expands their belief system or expands something about who they are, then you're customizing informed by something you already know. Laurel Elders: Of the client. Kristen Truman-Allen: Of the client. Laurel Elders: That distinction was powerful to me because in my MCC studies, it was like, I would ask these really concise short questions. And my MCC mentor, Carly, she invited me to expand. And I was oh, I now, it clicked in. When I customize, I'm taking something that the client has identified or that I know of them, and I'm taking that concise question and then inviting that piece of information in to make the question even more powerful. Kristen Truman-Allen: Right. Laurel Elders: For them, for their experience. Kristen Truman-Allen: Yeah. And I think, I'm imagining that people listening are like, well, hey, yeah, you're saying what to do, but how do I do that? And I think a lot of it has to do with understanding values, like getting to know your client in a way that you know what their values are, what their energies are, a little bit about their strengths or other things, goals that they've set. Language that they've used even in the beginning of the conversation, right. Using their own language and being curious about that, to invite a connection to something that they've newly found. So that you're customizing in their own language, which creates that connection, too. Right. It takes it to that other level, and also not being attached to where they used to be. So there's another little bit of that distinction. Right. Like, if you show up to the conversation and I am remembering you as the client, based on where you were two weeks ago, there might have been some growth. So I have to show up blank again, assuming that you're not the same person that you were before, but I'm still informed by, is this still a value? Is this still a thing? And listening to see if it's moved on. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Kristen Truman-Allen: That's abstract. Laurel Elders: That really resonates with me, because it's not letting the past, well, it's honoring what was and being open to what is and could be for the client. I guess that's the growth for a coach is, how can I hold this space of just because last session we touched on this, doesn't mean it's still true, so let's explore. It's just this place of complete. Everything is open, and yet we're still honoring what could be, what is. Yeah. Love it. Kristen Truman-Allen: So much. Laurel Elders: It is interesting. And I think, I don't know how your experience of learning coaching and deepening your own mastery of coaching has been, you know that journey. But, gosh for me I remember when I shifted into.... There was this click-in of I really do believe my clients have their answers. In the beginning, I was like, yes, I get it logically, but my bias would still show up because I wanted to help. And I felt like the more I participated, the more they would get. And I found the opposite is true. The more I provided, the less the client accessed their own power. It was really that humbling. Kristen Truman-Allen: Yes, it's humbling. And also you're having to put aside what you think the client will value in terms of, like, are you providing enough for them? Will they continue to want me if I'm not providing any answers? if we're not getting outcomes in m, a measured kind of way in my mind, then maybe I'm not effective. Right. But that's not what's happening. So there is that shift and that click and that trust of most of the time the client brings a what kind of thing to the conversation. But when you're taking it to that second level and they're going deeper and they're getting more powerful information coming from themselves and taking action from there, they will get where they're wanting to go faster, harder, more aligned and personally driven versus external. Laurel Elders: Yeah. It's pretty powerful. And I always reassure the students when they're just starting out on the coaching journey that we have these conversations about, well, but I feel pressure to get the client results. It's like, take yourself off the hook. The client will get their own results when you focus on them while they're solving the what. You focus on the who, they solve the what and they'll walk away saying, oh my gosh, thank you. I had no idea I could do this. Or I had no idea I was thinking this way. So you still get to participate in the gratitude. Don't worry, they're not going to not value you. They'll value you more. Kristen Truman-Allen: For sure. So, yummy. Thank you for this conversation. It brings up the power of coaching, with all of its distinctions and how much it is such a professional way to help people grow professionally. Laurel Elders: Yeah. In such a unique and honoring way, too. All right, well, thank you everyone, for joining us today. We hope these messages have been a lantern to you on your path as you expand your success as a coach, leader, or helping professional. You can join the conversation further at IntegrativeIntelligence. Global. |
RSS Feed
