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Laurel Elders:
Welcome to equip's weekly coaching tips that equip coaches, future coaches, and coach like leaders to develop their excellence in coaching. I'm Laurel Elders, founder of the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. I'm a master certified coach through the ICF, and I got my start as a professional coaching geek in 2005. I have with me today, Bryant Alexander and Jill Aronoff. Bryant a coach that works with us in admissions, helping people align with coach training options that are best suited for them and their organization. And Jill is also a coach, and she's here to dialogue with us and also answer questions in the chat and post links as we go. And today, we have a very exciting topic. We are kicking off a series called the eight domains of human potential. So we're going to be covering each domain and how they impact the coach, how they can impact leadership and positively impact our clients as coaches. All right, shall we? Bryant Alexander: Let's dive in. Um, where would we like to start? Laurel Elders: Well, let's just dive right into the heart of what are the eight domains! Bryant Alexander: Mhm. Laurel Elders: So, covering each of those, in essence, the eight domains are the avenues for expanding our capacity as a human being. And the definition - we're looking at the definition of potential. Oxford language says "having or showing the capacity to become or develop into something in the future. " Another second definition "are latent qualities or abilities that may be developed and lead to future successes or usefulness". Bryant Alexander: Okay. All right. So, I guess, with these eight domains, and I know this is something that's unique to the institution. I guess before we get into the what, Laurel, can you just talk a little bit about the why? Why do you think that this is important to really discuss? Because I know we talk about human potential that has become a topic today, but why do you think, right now, this is something that's important to really address? Laurel Elders: So, one thing is about developing our fullest capacity. So if you've got a leader that's developing their executive presence or even just their efficacy as a leader, and also as a coach, you can use the eight domains to fully develop your skill sets and presence as a coach. And it's a way that we can also help our clients. So, we're living in a time where, after COVID, we hit a lot of stress points. And, what they found is, under stress, we disintegrate naturally. Right. Makes sense. We disintegrate. So the best part of ourselves kind of get hidden and we become more reactive under disintegration. So making a conscious effort to integrate back into our potential and really expand, our own presence in whatever role we're playing, this is just one powerful avenue to really accomplish that. Bryant Alexander: Got you. Laurel Elders: So one of the ironies I have found about potential is that once we define it, we incidentally limit it by placing a box of perception around it. And the goal is really, not to stay put, but just to keep inviting further integration. Mhm. And yet ironically, we have to define some potentials in order to reach them. Mhm. So the eight domains can be a really powerful lens and a roadmap to accomplishing that. Mhm. Bryant Alexander: Yeah, there you go. Okay. I was going to say, let's talk about these eight domains. I think the potential. That is quite a word to use when it comes to these domains, because being that there's eight, it's like, how do you tackle all eight of these domains? Because there's so much potential around them. So I guess before we even talk about the how, just kind of going through the domains and what they actually mean, I think that's really important, in relation to potential. Laurel Elders: Mhm. Yeah, absolutely. So just to give a quick overview, we've got the somatic. So this is the physical body and our experiences in the body. We also have cognitive, which is the mind. So mindfulness, positive psychology. Also Howard Gardner's work on multiple intelligences are cognitive. We also have emotional, um, eq, for example, and relational. So what is our self identity? What is our relationship to ourself? What is our relationship to others? What is our cultural context? All of that. And then spiritual. Spiritual, not necessarily being religious, but sometimes it could be a religion. And, our definition of spiritual in this context is a connection to something greater than the self. So am I aware of a purpose? Am I aware of how I'm impacting the bigger picture? And what is my role? And then, motivational, there's a direct connection to what motivates me, what's underneath the surface. This could also be very connected to life purpose. And energetic is one that's often overlooked. So what energy am I bringing into what I'm doing or not bringing into what I'm doing? Am I aware of my energetic footprint, on my team? And then we've got integrational. So this is bringing it all together. How can we be aware of all of these domains so that, we can really engage all of them and have them interplay. So we see, like, for example, with Einstein, he engaged cognitively, but he also was much more open spiritually and looking at relationally. So he was engaging multiple intelligences to come to some of the pretty profound conclusions he did as a scientist. Mhm. Bryant Alexander: I would say, I guess these are just very, profound in a sense, because they all work together, which is how we get to integration. And when you talk about, I guess, potential in using these different, domains, it's just like, how would you go about, I guess, picking the ones that you want to focus on? Because it's hard to focus on eight different things. So how would you go about really focusing on, like, all right, these are the top two. This is the one, or this is the three that I would like to focus on. Laurel Elders: We teach a whole process around that. So really self identifying. What way am I in balance in this area, and what way am I out of balance, and what does success look like for me? What does my potential look like in this area? Am I aligning in that? So if the coach is presenting a way for the client to do their own self assessment, that's one way. Another way is to just go through a self inquiry process as a leader and say, how am I showing up? Am I aware of, my energy, of my motivations? Clean. So you can use it for self reflection, and as a coach, you can reflect on how am I bringing my whole self into what I'm doing? Am I clear on my motivation for why I'm a coach? Do I have a solid relationship process with my clients? So again, it can be, kind of like this really neat roadmap for, someone to really go deeper into their life. Jill Aronoff: I'm super excited about this, because my favorite is probably somatic, for sure. But I'm excited because I get the cognitive and the emotional mixed up a lot. M these are so similar. Well, in my mind, they're similar, so I'm excited to see the differences. Laurel Elders: Yeah, we're going to go into each of these more in depth. So we're going to be doing one a week. We'll do a deep dive into what to consider in that domain for yourself as a coach or a leader, and covering some of the distinctions, like Jill, you just brought up. All right, so that is a quick overview of what is to come. Jill's going to be placing some links in the chat, specifically geared around, integrative intelligence. There'll be a link to that. And, um, yeah, we just wanted to hop on today just to give you an idea of what we're going to be doing in our eight part series, and we hope you will join us. We hope that, um, this process isn't a lantern to you in your path as a leader or a coach. We are really here to help people elevate their own potential through the art and science of masterful coaching. So if you're an individual or organizational leader seeking to bring coaching into what you do, please reach out to Bryant here on LinkedIn. You can also visit us at integrativeintelligence.global, and we hope to see you next time! Bryant Alexander: Sounds good. Thank you.
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Click on the image below to watch on YouTube:  Laurel Elders:
We're going to dive into part two today, which I'm really excited about. So I just want to say welcome to our coaching equips. These are weekly coaching tips that equip coaches, future coaches, and coachlike leaders to help them develop their excellence in coaching. I'm Laurel Elders, founder of the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. I'm a master certified coach with the International Coaching Federation, and I got my start as a professional coach in 2005, which I like to say is when I became an official coaching geek. And, I have with me today Jill Aronoff. Jill is a leadership coach and will be here to be with us in this discussion. Bryant could not make it. If he ends up being able to make it, he did say he would hop on. So, Bryant, we miss you today. I also want to point out that we host these equips every Tuesday, 12:00 p. m.. Eastern. And if you'd like to receive these in your inbox, we will include a link to our newsletter below. You can sign up and stay in touch that way. All right, so today's topic is part two, drawing the line between coaching and therapy. So today we're going to be exploring some of those considerations when it comes to more of the liability and also the scope of practice of each. Last week, we covered where to draw the line, how to draw the line, and why to draw the line between coaching and therapy. We also covered the primary reasons for confusion around coaching, and we also covered a garden metaphor for healing and growth. So if you missed that episode, we will also place a link to it, um, after this chat, so you can check that out as well. All right, so today, like I said, we're just going to dive right into scope of practice. And also, what is liability and how does that come into play? Jill Aronoff: I am so excited to be covering this because it's such an interesting topic, for sure. And I'm curious, how would you define coaching scope? Laurel Elders: To me, the scope of practice for coaches falls under the umbrella very simple, personal and professional development. It's really just focused on goal attainment, skill development, personal expansion, self-actualization. So reaching our potential. Jill Aronoff: Mmmm I love that. That is so powerful to work with potential, for sure. And what about therapy? How would you define that scope? Laurel Elders: So, therapy has a much different scope of practice. Therapists are trained and licensed to help guide people through emotional healing, emotional well being, to really address and also treat traumas and, addiction anything that has become larger than someone can address on their own. Jill Aronoff: That makes perfect sense. Yeah. And what comes to mind is liability. Laurel Elders: Mhm. Yeah. So liability. And one thing I like to say when it comes to liability is coaching is a self regulated industry. That's what we call self regulated or peer regulated. Sorry, peer regulated. Um, in peer regulated industries. The reason some industries are peer regulated is because there is low risk for harm. Whereas um, in therapy the person coming to the therapist really needs to know where harm. Ttherapists are trained to know where the line of harm is drawn. And so that's the rationale behind licensing, making sure that that person is completely educated in where that line is drawn, how to completely avoid, causing harm, intentional or non intentional. And coaching is very low liability when it's done professionally. When the coach is educated on the distinctions, because I've seen it go in the other direction. When the coach is not using counseling and therapy in their practice, they are just coaching. Jill Aronoff: Yeah, definitely. So I'm wondering how does a coach know where to draw the line? Laurel Elders: So sticking with scope and a professionally trained coach will know exactly when, where and why to refer out to a licensed therapist. Because if something is outside of our scope of practice, we understand that we would actually be not helping the client if we continued to work with them. It is best to do a handoff at that point and refer out. And I also want to speak a little bit to harm. Right. So what is harm? That seems so nebulous. Jill Aronoff: I was wondering that too. Laurel Elders: Yeah. So an example of harm is somebody's nervous system getting activated and heightened to the point where the client can't come down from it for months. It can be months, it can be weeks. So working with a licensed therapist, they know how to walk with someone through that process and how to help them through whatever is coming up for them. And there's even I've spoken to, I've got some friends that are therapists. Some therapists specialize in trauma. Not every therapist is trauma trained. So that's interesting. Or specializes in trauma, definitely. Jill Aronoff: And it seems like trauma. There's like this gray line here. And I know from taking the courses that it's very clear. And you've learned through your training where you draw that line. It becomes very clear. Laurel Elders: Yes. I would say with the education it becomes clear, yes. And last week we talked a little bit about the distinctions between education and training and I think sometimes that's confused. So someone might avoid the education because they're assuming they don't need the training, which that may or may not be true. Right. Some people might already have training in the skills or have the skills, but the education side, I think everyone, if you are stepping into the coaching world, I always say be educated, be informed, because we don't know what we don't know. And that's where the biggest blind spot exists. Right? Jill Aronoff: Right. Laurel Elders: No, there's things we don't know, but it's the things that we don't know that we don't know. That's where it gets sticky. And that's the biggest blind spot I've seen. Jill Aronoff: Exactly. And it really builds your confidence to have that education. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Yes. Jill Aronoff: So I'm wondering, you said that there's low liability for professional coaching. Why is that? Laurel Elders: There's actually six reasons why professional coaching. I'm talking about educated and trained coaches. I can't speak for others - if a coach is using the word "coach", sometimes people aren't coaching, but they use the word "coach". So I just want to make that distinction. A professionally trained and educated coach is lower liability because: 1) Coaches are trained, we're not trained to assess. We do not assess, we do not diagnose, and we do not treat. We are actually trained to remove our bias so we're not stepping, um, on the toes of the client. The client is in charge. 2) The second reason is because the coach is educated on what we were just talking about, when, how, and why to refer out to a licensed therapist if the client is facing an issue that is outside of the scope of coaching. 3) The third is that the client, in coaching, the client is 100% responsible for their outcomes. So the coach is an expert in coaching. The client is the expert of themselves, and the coach completely honors that. So we set aside our biases in honor of what is the client's wisdom, what is the client's truth, what are the hidden potentials? All of those. Jill Aronoff: Yeah, definitely. I love that. Laurel Elders: The coach is also educated on how to teach the client. So, we're not coaching when we're setting up our professional relationship. We're teaching the client what coaching is and also what coaching is not. So, that is clearly articulated in a contract so that the client knows exactly what they are signing up for. Jill Aronoff: So what do you do if a client kind of pushes the boundaries? Laurel Elders: Do you have an example? Jill Aronoff: Well, I'm thinking if a client says, well, I don't want to go to a therapist, can we just talk about what happened? My trauma? Laurel Elders: Yeah, that does happen. It does happen. Coaching is kind of like the sexy thing to sign up for. Right, right. It has really grown in popularity. Yeah, I'd love to see. Have you come across that in your coaching? Jill Aronoff: I have a little bit, definitely. I have a couple of clients that try to push the boundaries many times, and what I do is I always refer back to our agreement and the definitions of what coaching is and what counseling and therapy is. And I offer support in helping to find a therapist or to find resources. Not necessarily to find a therapist, but find resources to find a therapist. Laurel Elders: Yeah, same. If something is outside of my scope, I am very clear about that because I don't want to waste anybody's time or energy. So just being very clear, this is outside of my scope. And sometimes that's even a personal preference for a coach. Let's say the coach just went through divorce. The coach might draw a boundary and say, I'm not coaching in that because I'm not able to be clear of my bias. And we're trained in how to have that awareness. So, that's something else to really consider. Jill Aronoff: Yeah. So we're at number four. Laurel Elders: 4) Four is educating what coaching, is and is not. 5) Then five, coach outlines coaches responsibilities and then the client responsibilities. So the client is responsible to take action. The client is responsible to direct the direction of the program. So if the program is not going in the direction the client wants, the client has complete agency to say, hey, I want to switch gears. That's something that's very unique to coaching as well. 6) And then six, the client, oh, this is connected - the client directs the program. Coach client responsibilities. Um, they have that agency to direct their own program, and switch gears as they see fit. And then another one is really the heart of coaching. So this is actually, I'm going to add a 7th one here. 7) The client is viewed as the expert. So in coaching, I always like to say we can be the expert, in something external, but we'll never be the expert of someone else's truth. And a coach really sits in honor of that wisdom and invites the client to really explore what is within you that is wanting to awaken. Jill Aronoff: Yeah, I love it when a client reaches that awakenedness and they realize it for themselves and it's just so much more powerful. Laurel Elders: Yes. So there you have it. If coaching is done authentically in the scope of, um, the client is in charge, the client is the one with their own answers. The client is the expert of themselves. Coaching is very low liability because we don't even advise so if a client is coming to us and saying, I'd like advice, the coach can get curious and say, okay, is this external information you're needing or are they just wanting someone else to provide an answer? And what's that about? Is that a power leak? Right. So these are just questions the coach can ask to see what is it the client is actually needing and put them in touch with a resource that can help. Jill Aronoff: Yeah, definitely. Laurel Elders: But the other thing I'd say about that is it's not that we just leave all of our resources at the door. Coaches can make suggestions or have resources to offer. Absolutely right. Different coaches have different niches. So I like to have leadership resources handy for my clients as just one example. But the difference is that I'm offering possibilities. I'm never saying this is what you need. The client gets to determine, oh yes, that's a great resource. I want to try that out. Clients in charge. Clients in charge, right, definitely. Jill Aronoff: And I love how in the training, it's really understood and taught to have a take it or leave it attitude. Laurel Elders: Yes. And you know what's fascinating to me is that approach is so important because if we talk about the first journey, the second journey of reaching potential, if we're shown the way, we're only going to get so far. So if the coach steps in and starts leading, the client's not doing the work. So who's doing the development? Nobody. Jill Aronoff: Right. Laurel Elders: Is not happening. So there is a purpose beyond I mean, it's a bigger picture purpose. When we don't let the client off the hook to come up with their own solutions, we're like, you've got the answer, you've got the answer. And we really invite them to step into that. Jill Aronoff: Right. And I remember when I first started learning how to coach I am an overachiever, so I always wanted to achieve something in the session and I went to my coach about this and had some coaching sessions around it and came to the realization myself. It was such a great example of, oh, this isn't about me when I'm coaching somebody, it's about them. So I want to meet them to where they are in their coaching journey. So it was really, um, a great experience to have that example through my self awakening of how to bring that to somebody else. Laurel Elders: Yeah, I love that perspective. It's a shift, isn't it? Jill Aronoff: It is a huge shift. And as soon as I was able to make that, my coaching was so much smoother. Laurel Elders: Mhm. Same. Jill Aronoff: And my clients had that awakening moment. So much easier for themselves. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Oh, can I share something embarrassing? Jill Aronoff: Yes, please. Laurel Elders: When I first started out coaching, I was like, okay, so I really have to formulate questions that get the client to this realization. And it's like, no. Jill Aronoff: Right. Laurel Elders: Introducing bias that's leading them so they're not self generating if I'm stepping in and focusing them on this perspective. But if I ask a completely open ended question, that's not leading them to look at this one spot, they might go in any direction. It's brilliant if you think about it. Jill Aronoff: Uh, it is. And I feel like the key to that is curiosity. Laurel Elders: Yes. It's just pure curiosity. That's one of the coaching skills to develop. What a fun one, right. Well, I love investigating. So, like, ooh, what's the truth about this? Jill Aronoff: It is so fun, and it's really fun to understand how other people think, not how I think. Laurel Elders: Yes, that is such a good point. See, now we're geeking out on coaching. Um, I know it's amazing, and I've talked to so many other coaches. I'm not sure if you share this experience, but the coach says, I've learned so much from coaching my clients. Yes, I've learned. Jill Aronoff: Every session I learned something. Laurel Elders: Yeah. All right, so I just want to circle back a little bit to the harm side, because there's really two types of harm that we want to consider when it comes to scope and liability. And I know these are heavier topics, but they're really important. I feel that people are educated enough to understand, okay, this is why therapists are licensed and fully educated, and this is why coaches are trained in their scope and trained how to refer out. So the first one is intentional. And you might think, like, who the heck would intentionally cause harm? Well, there are sadly, we saw this massively in the cult, um, nexium. That is an example of intentional harm. The people were conscious of what they were doing intentionally causing harm for their own means, and they were training coaches. And I watched the documentary. The coaches were doing zero coaching. They were doing therapy on people without any education or background in therapy or psychology. In many cases, mind blowing. But they called it coaching because what else could they call it? Right. Jill Aronoff: Right. Laurel Elders: Just slap that word on there. Right. That's an example of intentional harm. That is way more rare. We don't see that as much. I have not seen that as much. Unintentional harm is the other thing that pops up. Unintentional harm can happen if, for example, sometimes therapists might create coach training programs without understanding the scope differential. And so then the coach is graduating from that program, but actually is not coaching their counseling. And there's just not some great awareness around that. So it's not that that's a "bad" thing. It's just that the liability can go way up and it could turn into unintentional harm. Right. So if you're out there considering, like, oh, do I want to go into therapy or do I want to go into coaching? Just know, just be educated. Be educated. Where do you want to be doing your work in the world? Jill Aronoff: Yeah. Is there any kind of training for therapists that want to move into coaching? Laurel Elders: Coach training. Yeah, we, have therapists coming through the program all the time that are either transitioning or just adding coaching to their practice. So in the coaching world, the ICF has now. I love that they've done had, they put definition around level one and level two trainings. It used to be more, acronym based, but the current language is level one and level two. So level one is perfect for therapists that are transitioning into, or, sorry. That are adding coaching skills to what they're already doing. So let's say one of their clients gets, they've done their inner healing work and now they're ready to self develop. So adding those coaching skills, that level one training is perfect. It enhances the work that they do with their client. The other level two is designed more for therapists that are transitioning out of the therapy model and into the self development, personal professional development model and really helping people come up with their own solutions, future focused. And all of that. Jill Aronoff: Perfect. In fact, I have a link. I'm going to put it in the chat if there's therapists out there and want to learn more. Laurel Elders: Yes. Great. Thank you. And I'd say the other thing that is really under consideration and on some coaches hearts is, trauma informed coaching. So I just wanted to bring that one up. USo in coaching, we don't coach the trauma. We want to be trauma informed because that can help us really, know. Oh, now's the time to refer. It's. Hadn't done that in a while. Jill Aronoff: Yeah. Laurel Elders: Here's Bryant. Welcome! Bryant Alexander: Hello. I am here. Good to see you all. Jill Aronoff: Good to see you. Bryant Alexander: It sounds like Laurel was just getting out of what Laurel does best, just breaking down. What do we mean by trauma? Here's how it fits. Bigger picture. So, I didn't want to interrupt, but I just wanted to join to see how everything was going great. Jill Aronoff: Yeah. Laurel Elders: Good to have you. Yeah. We're just talking about trauma informed coaching, or being trauma informed as a coach. So looking at, we're not coaching the trauma now. If someone is on the other side of the trauma, right, then the coaching really works. But if there is an active trauma, then we refer out. And as coaches, we can be trauma informed, we can understand the impact that trauma has on our clients. Right. And be really respectful and empathetic of whatever the client is going through. But we're not actually coaching the trauma, so I just wanted to make that distinction. Bryant Alexander: Got you. Okay, sounds good. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Jill Aronoff: So are there any blind spots? Laurel Elders: The blind spot to me is when someone doesn't know what they don't know. Mhm. Yeah. That could show up in so many different ways, but understanding, so being educated in scope. Being educated when, where, why to refer out, being educated where to draw the line. Just having that education and understanding, it's not going to serve the client if we step outside of our scope of practice and our liability goes way up if we do so. Jill Aronoff: Mhm. Bryant Alexander: It's a lot of education behind that, though, when it comes to, I guess, for the client. And I know we have to be very delicate. Like you said, we don't want to coach the trauma. I heard you correctly. Right. So it's so much that goes into trauma because I think that when we think about trauma, it immediately kind of goes to. It's stuff that happened in my past, but we don't really dive into hereditary trauma or just like, especially, in the many different contexts that, trauma kind of shows up, especially as a person of color, I think there's a lot there and there's so much information out there, about how to actually deal with this trauma. So I guess let's say a client, wants to talk to you about trauma and just like how it's showing up. How would you be, I guess skillful with that conversation? We don't want to coach it, but how are you going to be skillful? Because you can probably see it or probably fill it as the coach, but how can you be just more skillful with it and just helping them kind of explore the. Laurel Elders: Mhm. Those are really, those are deep questions, Brian, I love that you went there. Know, as you were talking, I'm like, okay, so maybe there's a distinction between an active trauma or a trauma that we are bringing with us, but maybe it's not activated. So is that part of us coachable? So in coaching, we always say can the, client hold the coaching? So hold the coaching. Is the coaching working or is it not going anywhere? So usually, um, if there's an active wound, then the coaching can only get so far. It blocks the second journey because the person's not ready yet. There's got to be something that is addressed first before they can continue the self growth part. I don't know if that answers the question, but those are some things that come to mind to consider. Bryant Alexander: I think you kind of talked about it last week, because I know that you weren't always really for therapy, or like, maybe you weren't for therapy. Laurel Elders: It's just - I had resistance. Bryant Alexander: You had a little bit resistance to it, but you were like, I like this coaching thing. But you realized that you couldn't move forward in your coaching unless, you were able to address something in therapy. So I guess, can you just kind of talk about that connection there? And I guess not describe your trauma, but just, was there trauma involved in that process? Laurel Elders: Yes, absolutely. So I think, I always was kind of this rebellious, and then when I had negative experiences with therapists growing up, which happens. Right. I've talked to a lot of people that they haven't had a positive experience. Turning to coaching helped me gain some self awareness so that then I could see the therapeutic process through a whole new lens and appreciate it. And I found a therapist that was really aligned with me. And I think that even in coaching, coaching or therapy, you need someone that's a really good fit. So, yeah, it was interesting. As with everything, is it all or nothing? Bryant Alexander: No, always that and that word and is powerful. What about you, Jill? As far as whether you're coaching or whether you've been through coaching yourself, how have you kind of dealt with the trauma, moved through the trauma, explored the trauma, how have you gone about doing so? Jill Aronoff: Um, yeah, it's a great question. And I have had therapy myself. And, um, it's funny, when I first learned about life coaching, I was like, well, why would somebody go to a coach instead of just go to therapy? And I think it's because I was very immersed in therapy and I didn't understand the differences. But I love working with clients that are doing the therapy and digging in their past and then taking that understanding and working forward and working with me as their coach or working with any coach in that forward movement. In my coaching sessions, where I am the client, I know. Okay, here's the line. I don't want to go fall into therapy, but I can still talk about my therapy and what I've learned in therapy and use that with coaching to. Bryant Alexander: Get to where I want to m. Agreed, agreed, agreed. It's funny you say that, because, I've been through therapy, and I was telling Laurel a little bit about it, last week, but I guess just to expound on it and how it's really helped me be a little bit more prepared for coaching. So, overall, vulnerability is, like, a tough thing for me. It's like, even moments as far as where I think that I'm being vulnerable, it's like, you're not really being vulnerable. And my coach had to call it out, right. And it's like, I know where it comes from and I know the foundation of it, and it is a little bit of trauma there, but I think because I had the awareness around it, but now the coach is there to say, like, hey, you do a lot of teaching. Why don't you share more? You can teach and share. So he wasn't critiquing me that I wasn't sharing. He was like, you could be doing more to have a bigger impact. And, it's just funny, like, how that dynamic was there because I'm able to talk about that trauma, and it comes from my parents and all these other things that I've been through, and I've just never been a big sharer just in my life. But when it came to, um, working with my coach, she was like, we still got to work on this. This isn't going to work. And you would think that you would go back to a therapist for that. But because I had that awareness around it already, I was able to say, like, I know where it comes from. This is what it is. So now my coach is like, okay, we got to work on this because you could be doing more. And that's what I expect somebody that's going to tell me, like, hey, I see that you're doing something here, but it's more that you can be doing. He just summed it up like, you do a lot of teaching, but you do not share. You don't share enough. And he said, that's really just important for you as a coach, but just, like, as a person, right? How can you really connect with somebody if you're hiding these different pieces of you? And that's because we built the relationship over time and a lot of different things. Go ahead. Laurel Elders: I'm just curious. Are you talking about your mentor coach or coach supervisor? Bryant Alexander: Just my coach that I have outside of the institute? Yeah, good question. Yes. So I have my own coach as well, and also thankful for the coaches at the institute as well. So, yes, it is something that I've been exploring, something that I really want to work hard on because I think that it's kind of like a part of that integration that we speak about at the institute. Um, so it's powerful work, but, I just can't walk around with the shadow. I guess that's what I've been kind of looking at it as, like, shadow work, uh, revealing those different parts of my personality that, might not be deemed as favorable or will be judged. So I'm just doing, like, I look at it as shadow work because I love personal improvement. So now that I'm able to label, it's like, okay, what can we do to actually make it happen or take steps in it? Laurel Elders: Well, I think you bring up a really good point, and it sounds like your coach stepped in almost like a mentor in a moment to say, like, hey, here's a bigger picture. What do you think? And that we've talked, too, about. So what about mentoring? Right. Mentoring is not necessarily counseling. And so where does mentoring fit in? And can a coach, we had a whole segment on, can a coach wear dual hats? Should a coach wear dual hats? Mhm. What's the purpose? Is it helping the client? Is it taking away from them, activating their own? Own? Their own, yeah. Jill Aronoff: And I get pulled into that so often with my clients doing leadership coaching that they want mentorship. And I like to use the example of Laurel. I know you love to climb of the climber, and if you are climbing and you get to an overhang, that's really tough. A mentor and you're not sure how to get up, a mentor is going to put their hand out, pull you to the top, you feel good because the top. But coach is going to act like the belay and is going to hold on to you and bring that trust into the situation so that the client has a chance to just really look around and think, how am I going to get over this overhang? I am not going left because that is way too hard. And a coach may say, okay, well, if you look over to the right, what do you see? And now the client sees, uh, something that was always there, and now they see it for themselves. They say, I got this. They get up to the top, and now they feel amazing because they got themselves there. Laurel Elders: I love that distinction, Jill, because in the beginning of our awakening, whatever that is, personal, professional we do need someone to say, put your foot there. Just trust me. Put your foot there. And then we go, great, I can do then. But there comes a point when if I'm on a climb and somebody keeps telling me what to do, I'm never going to develop the skills to really just get up there myself. Yeah, that's a great distinction. Bryant Alexander: Yeah, love the metaphors. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Well, and then I know, a lot of companies will use mentoring because, the leaders, it's very appropriate to mentor someone into a position. So if you're a leader really considering, at what point do I mentor versus bringing in coaching and having the employee, the contributor, self develop the team? Self develop? Bryant Alexander: M that's a good question. Because, again, mentorship is more so, I guess I look at it as advising. It's maybe somebody that might be in a position that you would like to be in. It's like, how did you get there? So this is more so, like, here's my journey, here's some tactics, some tips. Coaching, as we've been discussing, is just that opportunity with the mountain. I want to figure out where to put my feet at. And when I get to the top, I feel so much more complete or fulfilled because I did this. But my coach was there, um, as kind of the support more so it's a skill that really has to be developed. And, I'm glad you made that differentiation because, um, my coach was there to play that mentor role because usually he doesn't do that, but he was there to say, like, seeing something, man. Yeah, here's what you need to do. And then he actually followed up with a question like, what does radical vulnerability look like for you? So the coaching came right back afterwards and I was just like, it's a powerful question. I don't know what that looks like. So it was just a good balance, a good support hand that helped me up the mountain. It's helping me up the, yeah. Laurel Elders: Yeah. I love Jill - you were, you were sharing with me how when we'd interviewed Janet Harvey and she talked about the bring - when do I ask for mentoring? When do I ask for coaching and where that distinction, know and what's needed. Jill Aronoff: I love that podcast. It's one of my favorites. I'm going to look for the link right now and put it in the chat. Laurel Elders: Yeah, that's, great. That was an excellent episode, and I think maybe that's the heart of it. What is needed? What is needed? Bryant Alexander: Yes. Laurel Elders: Bottom line. And who gets to determine that? Bryant Alexander: The client usually, right. Jill Aronoff: Period. Laurel Elders: And no matter whether it's therapy or counseling or mentoring or coaching. Right. Client gets to determine, what do I need? All right, so, any other things we should be considering in professional scope or liability before we hop off today? Bryant Alexander: I hopped on late, but it sounds like you, ah, all were holding it down, so thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you, Jill, for, being a part of this today. And also, I got to learn a little bit about you, so we got to keep these conversations going. Jill Aronoff: Yeah, definitely. This has been so enlightening and fun for me, too. And it's great to have you here. Bryant Alexander: Thank you. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Thanks, everyone, for joining us. And next week, we are going to dive into the secret sauce of motivation, because it's often hidden. So it's really cool to explore, what role does motivation have? And it's often unseen. It's not a seen aspect. So that'll be, I think, a fun, deeper dive. All right. So, we hope today's mastery tips are a lantern for your path with coaching, it is our mission to elevate human potential through both the art and the science of masterful coaching. If you're an individual or organizational leader seeking to bring coaching into what you do, please reach out to us. Bryant is here on LinkedIn, here to help, you connect with the different options that we offer. And, I always like to say, if you're joining from another platform besides LinkedIn Live, you can reach Bryant at: [email protected]. We also help companies increase business performance and leadership impact by developing coaching talent and creating coaching cultures. So, if you are interested in more information about that, you can reach out as well. And to learn more, you can visit us at: integrativeintelligence.global. And "Last call". Go ahead, Bryant! Bryant Alexander: This is where I get excited. Last call. So, Friday, March 22. That is this Friday. We have our coaching fundamentals. If you're curious about coaching, if you are currently running your own coaching company and looking to really go through the process or get a better understanding of how you can be a better coach, if you are a leader at an organization looking to become more coach like, we are here to support. So, March 22, we will have our Coaching Fundamentals, and we have scholarships available for that. Right? We have a big class right now, so spots are limited. Okay? So I want to emphasize that, but if you really want to come for a powerful experience led by the whole team at the institute for Integrative Intelligence, please reach out to me. We're going to have a powerful session. It's 6 hours of your day. We have a great cohort so far. So many different people from so many different backgrounds. I think we've got construction, consulting, education. We have a lot of different backgrounds. So if you are interested in attending, please reach out to me. Again, we have scholarships available. And when I say scholarships, I mean that you don't have to worry about anything. For the most part, you just got to show up. Okay? So if you would like to learn more about that opportunity, please reach out to me. I'm happy to have a conversation about it. I've also gone through the, I've completed my classroom portion, at triple I. So, if you would like to have a conversation with me about my level two experience, I'm happy to talk to you about that as well, but, yeah. Looking forward to hearing from you all. I'm excited about Friday. If you're watching this, you should be, too. And if you haven't signed up, please sign up as soon as possible. All right? Laurel Elders: Yeah. We hope to see you there. And, as Bryant mentioned, the tuition is covered by scholarships for this one, thanks to the Sandy Hogan coaching, legacy. So we're very grateful for that and hope that that is a blessing to you as well. And we hope to see you next week. Bye for now. Jill Aronoff: Thanks, you guys. Bye. Laurel Elders:
Welcome, everyone, to equips. These are weekly coaching tips that equip coaches, future coaches, and coach like leaders to develop their excellence in coaching. I'm Laurel Elders, the founder of the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. I'm a master certified coach with the International Coaching Federation, and I got my start as a professional coach in 2005 when I became an official coaching geek. And I have with me today bryant alexander. Brian is a coach and works with us in admission. He loves helping people align with the coach training options that are best suited for them and their. Bryant Alexander: Yeah. Thank you for that introduction, as always, Laurel. And, I guess just to get it started a little bit differently, I know we had a lot of RSVPs, so where are people logging from? If you want to just drop it in the chat, please let us know. Where are you logging from and what made you decide to join today? So take a few seconds to do that. But as Laurel said, that I work with the institute for integrative intelligence and admissions, so really helping people on that coaching journey. And over the last know, last three months, really, since I've been here, we've been able to really connect on things. And one of the biggest things that I think has brought a lot of value is, ah, these lives. I just like getting on here, and like you said, geeking out about coaching. Right. And just the transformational process it can be for somebody, so grateful to be here, and I'm a coach myself, and, when did I start geeking out? I started geeking out about coaching around 20. What was it when I actually knew what I was doing? Probably, like around 2017. That is when I started to really geek out about it. So glad to be here. Laurel Elders: Yes. And we also have with us Jill Arnoff. Jill is a leadership coach. She's here to answer questions in the chat and post links as we go. We're going to be covering different resources, so she's here to be, uh, support in that way. And if you're new to joining us, we do these equips every Tuesday, 12:00 p. m.. Eastern. And if you'd like to receive those in your inbox, Joe will post a link to the newsletter below. That way you get, direct connection to every episode. And today's topic. Here we go. Drawing the line between coaching and therapy. And this is actually a part one of a part two series. So today we're going to really just explore some things to consider around where the line is, why the line is there, but also dispel some myths and overlaps. So I know, Bryant we were talking before how a friend of yours, I believe, had know. I just don't understand the distinctions. And I can say that I really relate with that because when I first took a coaching class, I actually thought I was learning counseling skills. I signed up with that intention. Bryant Alexander: Yeah, it's funny you say that, because when I actually started coaching, I used to emphasize, like, I am not a therapist, so I cannot help you with that. I tried to make sure that line was drawn so fast, because I was worried that all right, what if this person starts getting into the past and all these other things? And I was like, I don't know if I should be talking about that. I don't know if we should really dive into it. So I was actually very early on, I was very transparent. I am not a therapist. I don't want to try to label your depression, your childhood, anything like that. But as time has gone on, I understand, like, all right, there is a line here. Mhm. Laurel Elders: Yes, there's definitely a line. And, just to draw attention to the fact that therapists are trained and licensed to diagnose and treat, coaches are not. We do not diagnose, we don't even assess. We offer client self assessments, but we're not assessing our client and advising them. So that's a key distinction right there. But I do know there's another reason for confusion, is because there's some skill overlap and there's four primary skills that overlap. So empathy, reflective listening, exploring emotional content, and asking powerful questions. Both approaches use both. But there's a very different foundation for why a therapist is hired to help a client go in a certain direction and explore things from the past, get healing from things that may have happened, and get guidance in life. Whereas a coach is sitting in honor of the client's truth, views the client as the expert, and does not have a bias, or if they do, we're trained to put our bias aside. Right. To be in complete honor of the client, directing the process. Bryant Alexander: Yeah. And, it goes back to my motto, coaching is therapeutic, but it is not therapy. Okay. And the funny thing is that it actually helps when you have a therapist. But I want to really emphasize your point around when we honor the client, what that means is that the client comes with, like, this is the intention that I have out of this engagement, or, this is what I'm looking for. This is what I want to grow in therapy is like, they're going to force you. Like, hey, we got to talk about the past. Because you have all these behaviors, you have all these tendencies. Let's try to label them. Let's try to help you understand them. Let's try to help you start to maybe unlearn them. Um, sometimes. But I like that differentiation because coaching is very, just when you're in honor of the client, it's very future focused. Right? No agenda, no biases. It's like, what is the thing that you want? Or how do you want to m move forward? How do you want to create the vision, the life that you want for yourself? And I think that's where that line is kind of drawn. Like therapy can, in my opinion, my philosophy, therapy can only get you so far. Then it's like, okay, I understand my triggers. I understand I've healed from my trauma a little bit from my traumas because we're always healing. But now it's like, what is the future I want for myself? How am I going to really unlearn the things that I thought were true about myself and move forward? Laurel Elders: Yeah. In my first training, they made the distinction of an architect and an archaeologist. So an archaeologist is like therapy. It helps us dig through the past to make sense of what's going on. And in coaching, it's more like architecture. We're helping the client build their vision in their life. Bryant Alexander: Mhm. Laurel Elders: I thought that was pretty neat. Bryant Alexander: I like that. Laurel Elders: Another really powerful metaphor that I found in understanding the distinctions is actually, I've made some slides just to give this. Some life is the metaphor of a garden in our life. So, for example, if we've experienced something traumatic or if we're just going through a midlife crisis, whatever that is, it's almost like the weeds are overgrown or, hey, you might have a tractor in your land, right? There might be something getting in the way. So in order to have a garden, you've got to clear the path. So we start to clear out the weeds, and we do some healing work on things that have happened in the past, and it clears the ground. So now we have a clearing. Now we can decide what do we want to plant. What do I want to show up in my life? How do I want to be in my life? What do I want to grow? What fruits do I want? And so we start to begin with the end in mind, and then if we nourish the garden, we grow. So it's really healing, and growth leads to full integration, and each serves its own purpose. So I had a colleague, Anna Malikin. She put this so brilliantly. So she started out as a therapist and transitioned into coaching. And she said, as a therapist, I would help people get from negative ten. Like, the problem was just too big. And she helped guide them into more of a neutral space so that they could live their life and not have the problem overwhelm them. But as a coach, I helped them go from that neutral to plus ten in their life. And I thought, that is so brilliant. I know we've talked about that before. Bryant Alexander: And I guess, to add to that- you're actually about to hit it right on the head- like, just understanding the roots. And, in my opinion, coaching is work on yourself, like, really challenging yourself to create the future you want for yourself. It moves you from a sense of, like, I am a result of, or I'm a product of all of this that I've been through to, oh, I have the ability to create that garden that I want in my life, whether it be personally, professionally. Of course. At the institute, we're about integration, so one is connected to the other all the time, but really making sure that you are, I guess, really just making sure that you live a balanced and balanced life, but also understanding how much choice you have in the garden that you choose to plant. Laurel Elders: Yeah. And to be able to step into life from your wholeness. Right. That includes all of us. That includes the wounds and all of it. It includes all of it. And, like, this image. I picked this image because it really shows how when we deal with what's at the roots of our life, it helps us grow in new ways. And that is why sometimes coaching is ineffective. If somebody has something that's bigger than them, the coaching may not even work. And so that's the power of education. And an educated coach will know exactly when, where, and why and how to refer out. And sometimes some people step into coaching while they're seeing a therapist because they're working on growth and they're working on the inner work with their therapist. And that's a powerful combination. It can be. Bryant Alexander: Mhm. And, Laurel, I have a question for you. So how do you know, how does one know when they're ready for you. How would you gauge that? I know it's different for everybody, but overall, how would you know? What would be the signs to say, like, oh, I'm ready. I think it's time for me to get into coaching. Laurel Elders: Yeah, I would say, one thing that I've observed, and this is just me, I think other coaches might have some different experiences, but one thing I've observed is that the client is completely open to self reflection work and really being self honest and transparent with themselves. So if there's that openness and willingness to take a look at like, oh, that reaction I just had, that was actually based on something that happened three months ago, just get really honest, then they can what we call hold the coaching and the coaching can work. And I want to pull that back into what you said about coaching can be therapeutic. The coach does zero therapy, but for some reason, when a client steps into self development, self discovery into that coaching process, it can have a therapeutic impact on them because they're doing their own work for once. So it is fascinating. Bryant Alexander: Yeah, I'm just playing devil's advocate, but what if somebody says, but that's what I go to therapy for, to have self discovery, have an understanding of myself. So what would you say to those people? That's what my therapist is for, right? Laurel Elders: Yeah, I say, great. As long as you're getting your needs met, that's what matters. Coaches are really trained just on that second journey that we talked about, the self discovery journey. So that's all we do. We are focused in on growth, self actualization and integration. So that's our wheelhouse. So that's all we do. Some therapists do both. They will notice when a client has shifted into the space to be able to do the growth work and they shift the modality to coaching and it goes really well together. Other therapists would refer out to a coach after the client has completed, the work that they came for. Bryant Alexander: Mhm. And I guess I want to emphasize that something you said, like self reflection, self actualization, and also just the second journey. How you kind of put that into words. Because, I think the mindset, since we talk a lot more about mental health, therapy a lot more openly today, we think that, or what I've observed is that people say I'm healed, or like I'm healing, or I have this trauma. I think that that is a lifelong thing that we don't always pick up on and you're never really healed and you always carry around that trauma. Just a bit. Just a bit. You may be able to manage it more, but I think that's where coaching really comes in at. Right. Because I think that what I found when I was in therapy was that, all right, I understand all these things about myself, and I'm very aware of them, but I still have my reactions, I still have my judgment. I still carry around this desire. Uh, right. Or I still have an aversion to still being vulnerable because I'm aware of it. I know when it's happening, but I'm still doing the same thing. So is it to say that therapy didn't do its job? It's like, I wouldn't say so. I think that I have a label for it, and I know when it's happening, and maybe I could react differently in those situations, but I think that's where coaching kind of helped me out at. In that. Okay, let's kind of dive into how does that feel? Right. I think the thing about therapy was, like, it didn't teach me a lot about, and some therapists do this, but it didn't teach me about that kind of embodiment of, that embodiment of an emotion or that embodiment of trauma or that embodiment of healing. It didn't really teach me about it. And it talked from the perspective that, and this is, again, no shade to a therapist. Like, things were happening to me. And I think that with coaching, it's like, no, you experience things, right? You experience emotions. You aren't your emotions. You experience trauma. You aren't your trauma. You experience healing, you aren't your healing. So now it's like, okay, how are you going to react differently? Or what is the thing that you want to work on in regards to being more in tune with your body, being more in tune with the way you process problems or situation or perceive challenge or negative thoughts, negative emotions, because I would still have a lot of negative thought patterns even coming out of therapy. But coaching, I said my intention the first time I did coaching. My intention limit negative thought patterns. That is something I want to do. So we actively did work as far as what is somatics, how does that feel? Or what are these situations? How are they showing up today, and how do you want to do them differently? So I think that's where coaching, really, for me, that's where it kind of draws the line because it was a little bit more holistic. And like you said, what we do at the institute, it's more integrated. It's not just about getting you a job. It's like, what's the bigger picture here? Right? What are we trying to really get to? What's the bigger goal? Because you're going to get the job. We know that you've done it several times throughout your career. You're going to get it. But now it's like, what is the bigger picture here? And how is this in service of you versus you being in service of it? So I think that's where coaching really accelerates growth, if anything. Laurel Elders: Yes, absolutely. It really helps us to start, to begin to live our life through our wholeness. Bryant Alexander: Laurel Elders: Bryant Alexander: Laurel Elders: Bryant Alexander: Laurel Elders: Bryant Alexander: Laurel Elders: Bryant Alexander: Laurel Elders: Bryant Alexander: Laurel Elders:
Yeah, we're live. We made it. Facebook and Instagram are having a couple issues, so I'm really excited that we made it today. And I just wanted to say welcome to all of our coaching quips guests today. We do these as weekly coaching mastery tips that are designed to equip coaches, future coaches, and coach-liked leaders with empowering approaches. I'm Laurel Elders, the founder of the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. With the ICF i'm a master certified coach, and I got my start in professional coaching in 2005. I became a complete coaching geek, and haven't looked back since. And I have with me today, my co-host, Bryant Alexander. Bryant is a coach that works with us in admissions, helping people align with the coach training options that are best suited for them and their organizations. Bryant, feel free to give everyone a shout-out. Bryant Alexander: Well, first, I just want to shout out everybody for this coaching quips. I think we had 77 rsvps, so I don't know if 77 people are here right now, but I just want to thank you all for taking the time to come out today to learn a little bit about coaching, and different types of coaching methodologies. We got a really special guest today and we'll introduce her in a minute. But, yeah, thank you. Just thank you for the support. Thank you for just taking the time out of your day. Laurel Elders: We also have with us Jill. Jill Arnoff. She is a leadership coach, and she's here to answer questions. She's also going to be putting little tips and things in the chat as we go so you can get more resources. But if you do have any questions as we go along, just plug those in the comments, and Jill will get that taken care of. And now I'm so excited because today we're going to be talking about strengths-based coaching, and we've invited one of my favorite people, Rupa Rihan, to join us. Rupa is a resume and LinkedIn specialist, facilitator, writer, and Gallup certified strengths coach who supported hundreds of leaders in clarifying their strengths, story and expertise in order to land new opportunities and find deeper fulfillment. Welcome, Rupa! Rupa Rihan: Oh, my gosh. Such an honor and privilege to be here with you both watching the lives and being here live with you now. So, um, this is an incredible way to start my morning. Bryant Alexander: Awesome. Rupa Rihan: Laurel Elders: Yeah. I just wanted to kick us off by really appreciating the strengths based approach because we use it in our executive and leadership coach training program. And, I found that the research behind it is so impactful and just learning how. I think it was in the 1950s, Don Clifton asked the question, "what would happen if we studied what was right with people versus what was wrong? " And had processes to help them lean into that. So I'd love to hear what brought you into strengths. Rupa Rihan: I love that question so much. I always start every workshop with that question. What would happen if we started with what was right with people instead of what was wrong? And it just feels like, it's like a release, like a sigh. What could be possible? So, that's like a really grounding mantra for me. I came to this work, kind of unexpectedly. I first did the assessment in my twentys. I think like a lot of people, when I took it, felt like another personality test. At the time, I didn't quite understand it. And I have a lot of high relationship building strengths. And so I had ideation and I had positivity and things like that, and I just thought like, oh, that's nice. I know this about myself, but at the time, I was in a very outcomes driven organization, and I really wanted the strengths that my managers had. Some of my managers had, like, achiever discipline, like strategic self assurance command. And I was like, that's what a leader is. Like, I don't have the right strengths. And I felt mine were, like, too soft. So at that time, just didn't feel very empowering. It was like, this is like a fun tool. And, I'm learning more about my personality. And then I came back to it in the pandemic. So I think people have been posting, it's like four years this week from when the pandemic happened, which is wild, right? Bryant Alexander: I, uh, didn't even realize that. Wow. Rupa Rihan: Actually, when I was facilitating this past Saturday, we had to go back and I was like, no way. It's three, right? And do the math. It's four. Um, so in the pandemic, I came back to this work. I was really wanting to do a coach certification program. I wanted to do a program like the Institute for Integrative Intelligence, but I was like, "am I ready to make that jump? " And this program was a little bit more condensed, and I came back to the model. I was personally in a really tough place. I was pregnant with my second, I was isolated, and I was really depressed and feeling really bad about myself. Like, what do I have to offer? What am I good at? Uh, just in a tough place. And so kind of came back. A colleague suggested, like, I had just done the Clifton strengths coach training and it was amazing. And I went back to the model and I was like, this is so asset based, this could really help me right now. And so I did the training and I had this incredible coach, Danny Lee, who facilitated, uh, the training and had all relationship building strengths in his top five and was an incredibly effective executive coach and trainer. And I just realized like, oh, you could lead with relationship building and still be effective and still be exactly who you are. And I just loved it. And I have just been on this journey ever since to help people embrace what they're naturally good at and what they're naturally talented at and lead from that place as opposed to fixate on what we're not good at. Bryant Alexander: M um. Wow, what a journey. And something I want to highlight is just being in such a dark, uh, place during the pandemic, I think a lot of us were really reflecting like, what's really important. And I think with your situation specifically, like, being pregnant with your second child, not feeling too good about yourself, I think it's powerful for you to lean into your strengths even during that time. Like, let me do a little bit more self exploration for myself. Let me find the good or the strength that I have within me. And that takes a lot of resilience, especially during that time and with your situation. So I just want to acknowledge that for sure. Laurel Elders: Rupa Rihan: Thank you. Of course, yeah, that really touches my heart. I'm grateful for what's possible when we can connect with more people. Um, and be honest about our experience. Laurel Elders: Bryant Alexander: Sure. Um, I guess kind of like a follow up question to that. What are your top strengths and how have those kind of evolved over time? Rupa Rihan: Hm. Such a good question. So technically, this assessment, the Clifton strengths assessment will evaluate what are your natural talents and strengths and put them into 34 talent themes. And so you can look at all the research and the data and there's a lot of numbers around how they just don't typically move that much. But I have found mine have moved a bit based on the life phase that I've been in and the work I'm doing. So in my twenties, I had in my top five ideation, futuristic input, empathy and positivity. And in my twenties, a lot of us in our 20s, it's like, who do I want to be? A lot of the, oh, I had intellection, actually. So it was somewhere there really being in my head. And then as I moved into my thirties, I shifted more into really finding more my calling in developing myself and other people. Um, and my strengths sort of evolved a bit, too. And so we often say our strengths are in our top ten are really more like our top strengths. So you might have, like, a five that will move to a seven if you take it again. So, sometimes the one to five is incomplete. But when I started to take it again in my thirties and my work and my life, my values shifted a bit. I have right now empathy, positivity, developer, relator, and connectedness. Bryant Alexander: Okay, got you. Okay. Rupa Rihan: And, Laurel, I know you have some similar and different strengths. Laurel Elders: Yes. So my top five were relator, discipline, which I thought was interesting. That could not have been me earlier in my life. Belief, responsibility, and achiever. Bryant Alexander: Okay, I need to go take my strengths test. I know them, but I want to know them by that standard. So I need to go my testing. Rupa Rihan: I'm going to send you a code, and then we could talk about it. Bryant Alexander: Appreciate it. Laurel Elders: Well, one thing that really impressed me was the - And as you know, our passion is integration, helping people reach their potential. So, knowing your strengths, I see, is like a shortcut, because when I got my results, I was a little shocked by some of them, but yet, when I looked at the details, it made sense. So now, um, I've learned that the research shows leaning into your strengths was. I don't remember the exact number. It was, like, ten times more effective than trying to force against a, uh, weakness and. Yeah. Any thoughts on that? Rupa Rihan: I love that idea. I have so many thoughts, I'm bursting. well, one, I love knowing your strengths, laurel, and I totally see them in you, and I can understand. I think one thing we find with clients is have. We all have different definitions of what a word will mean. So, like, discipline, responsibility, and what. What we find is in this model, when you read the report, that. That the words and phrases can often be like, that's exactly me. Even if maybe we're thinking of discipline in a different way, like our definition. So I think I often find clients are, uh, like, oh, this definition really lands. When I read more, I didn't think of myself as somebody who had high discipline, but actually, I see it here now. So I'll name that. And then in terms of, um, the strengths and the weaknesses. So, totally this whole kind of framework is around this idea that, um, the more we can double down and invest in and lead from our strengths, the more effective we are, the happier we are, the stronger outcomes we get, the more, um, impact we can make, which is really where I love and live to do this work. And then we define a weakness as anything that gets in the way. A weakness is anything that gets in the way of success or in the way of achieving what you're trying to achieve. And so the example I always share is that at the bottom of my report. So if you do the full report, you get, like, one to 36, 34 at the bottom, the bottom seven or eight. I have, like, discipline, responsibility, consistency, like, all these executing themes. And I am not somebody who's naturally motivated by a lot of those small pieces around execution the way some of my colleagues and friends with high discipline, high responsibility, high consistency, high achiever are, like, I can't sleep if I have the typo. That's not me. And so trying to be someone I'm not, which I spent many years trying to fake it, um, really is not an effective way to motivate myself to do that well. So what we teach clients is this process of, like, name it, claim it, and aim it. And so name it is the act of naming your strengths. What are your top strengths, what's the definition? And then claiming it is the process of saying, how do they show up for you? Because responsibility and relator will show up different for you than maybe how relator shows up for me. Laurel, um, we both have that strength. And then aiming it is like, now that we know our strengths, we can define them for ourselves, how they show up, how can we point them in the direction where we're trying to go, um, to help us achieve what we want. And so I take my relationship building strengths, and I aim them to help me manage my weakness in details. So when I facilitate, like I facilitated on Saturday, I'm most motivated to do those things well because of the relationships that I have. Like, I want to show respect to people who come to my sessions. I want to respect their time, I want to respect the relationship. I want them to feel valued and seen. And so that helps me get details right and manage it, versus just being, like, trying to sort of say, this is an important part of being a professional. That doesn't motivate me as much. So that is where I think it can be really powerful. When it comes to our areas of growth or, our weaknesses, how can you aim what you're naturally good at to help you manage what's harder for you? Bryant Alexander: Very interesting. And I never thought about it like that because I'm a little bit of the same way. I love to facilitate. I'm not the best. Even though I've worked as a project program manager, I'm not the best in the weeds type of person. But because I know that this program is important and I'm actually facilitating, it's like, okay, I'll go through that deck ten times, because I want to make sure everything looks good, everybody feels good, everybody feels acknowledged, included in the conversation. I never thought about it like that. Rupa Rihan: Yeah, I really appreciate that reflection. And what it's, um, allowing for me now to be able to have the language to say name, "hey, here's what I'm naturally good at. Here's what I'm not as naturally good at" has allowed me to be able to partner more effectively with people who are motivated in that way. So when I've now been pursuing collaborations, I tend to pursue them with people who have high responsibility or high discipline or high achiever, um, who are looking for someone like me and maybe you, Brian, to kind of bring the ideation, bring the futuristic, bring some of that kind, um, of relationship centered, um, presence and teaching and connection. They're like, I want more of that. Um, but they're so good with the details, the tech. Even when I was facilitating on the weekend, I had, um, some people who have strong deliberative, strong discipline, helping with. They're like, tell me how many minutes for this protocol, and I'm going to be timing, and I'm going to be on top of it. So it's a great tool to consider how to collaborate better on teams and in partnerships. Bryant Alexander: Wow. Um, before I add to that, Laurel, did you have anything there? Laurel Elders: Oh, that just makes so much sense. The team part. Yeah. And just adding strengths, adding coaching to strengths. I know how much self awareness just expands at that point, which expands capacity. Bryant Alexander: Yeah, I, uh, was really thinking about it from - It's one of those obvious things that you really just don't think about. Of course, if I don't know something, I want to get somebody that's better at the thing that I'm not as good at. Right. Especially just as a entrepreneur, as an executive, like you just said Laurel, around self awareness, like, actually paying attention to the people around you and what they're good at and saying, like, okay, I see this person is a lot more organized than me when it comes to their calendar. Everything is color coordinated. The free slots that you can book, you know, where not to book. I'm not the best at that. So maybe this is going to be my project manager, so I can actually deliver whatever I need to deliver for. So obvious. But it just takes a person to notice what's going on around them, actually have intentional interactions with the people that they're working with to see. Oh, okay. Here's how I can leverage my strengths and this person's strengths in order to make something of value or that's impactful. Laurel Elders: Well, and isn't there something around, um, the energy drain or the energy giving? Right. If we're in our strengths, it energizes us. We're fighting against our weaknesses or things that aren't our jam. It drains us. And we try to be really conscious of that with our team. It's like, what gives you life? What drains you? Let's connect your employees or your people, your team, with what they're brilliant at. Their genius. Rupa Rihan: Yeah, I love that. I think that is a big part of what we do explore with clients is some of these questions around, like, what are you naturally good at? When do you feel like you're in flow? When do you feel ease? Right. And, when does it feel easy? Right. And so when we can align our work and our lives more to our strengths, we can let in more ease in our. It's. It's incredible. And it's interesting you mentioned the entrepreneurship part, Bryant, because I think early in my entrepreneurship journey, I was sort of throwing darts, like, oh, I'm open to kind of anything. I'll project, ah, manage. I'll design, I'll facilitate. Like, work is work. I think that's a good, um, starting place to be. Like, I don't know yet what I want, so I'm going to try out a bunch of things. But once I went through the strengths, Clifton strengths coach training, and went on this journey, that's when I started to redesign my business to my natural strengths. So that's when I doubled down more on coaching, having high relator, high individualization, high positivity. I doubled down more on designing and facilitating community spaces, cohort programs, which play to my relationship building strengths. And that's when I pulled back from things like project, like being hired to project manage a project and would partner with people who are good at that and love a spreadsheet and Asana and things like that. Just like, love a good tool. And that really helped because the work got easier for me, when I rolled off of what I wasn't naturally as good at. And then, of course, we always want to grow and get better. So it's like, I do want to feel confident in some of these areas I'm not as naturally motivated in. But if there's a way to do it that makes, it allows everybody to play into their strengths, everybody feels better about themselves, which I love. We're too critical on our own. I love inviting that in. Bryant Alexander: When I hear you talk about this, I hear you talk about flow, I hear you talk about the things that feel easy or the things you get excited about energy around these different activities, especially as a leader, as an executive, as an entrepreneur. So it sounds like values kind of are coming in here, but could you speak to that a little bit more? Like, between your strengths values? It seems like there's some type of connection there. Could you speak to that? Rupa Rihan: Yeah, for sure. It's interesting because we did a workshop on values and strengths last year. Now I'm like, what did we present on? So, yeah, when I think of the relationship - I'll find it and share it with you later. With you both later. We use a lot of metaphor, which I really embraced after doing the coach certification program with the institute and getting to engage in so many amazing sessions on metaphor. Um, so around the time when I was doing the training, we did me, um, and a collaborator who's like, high discipline, high consistency, high responsibility, which is part of why we work well together. We did a workshop on values and strengths, and I think what we did was we used a tree flower and shared how values and strengths can be different parts of a bloom. And I often think values are the foundation. Um, they are our anchors. Like, what is true for us? What do we want to be true about our lives in any context? What are like three to five values? And then for me, strengths are sometimes how I think of how we can actually express our values, how they can show up. So for me, my values are creativity, community and growth. And so how I express those values in my life, my strengths enable me to do that. So coaching is like, one way that I can express my commitment to growth in community. Um. Um. Mhm. I'm thinking, like, there's just so much to go there, but I kind of, like, I kind of like to think of it as, like, values as anchors and strengths as, like, I think that's where we, like, we showed the roots, like, the growth. Strengths is like, how you can actually express those anchors through the work you choose to do. Bryant Alexander: Got you. Rupa Rihan: And how you show up in the world. Bryant Alexander: That makes sense. Makes sense. Rupa Rihan: I love that I have to find the image and send it to you both. Laurel Elders: Yeah, that would be great. I love it. I was just curious, what advice would you have for leaders that are looking to leverage their team's, um, strengths? Where should they start? What should they be considering? Rupa Rihan: There's so many resources, and there's a lot of free resources, too, if people are strapped for budget right now. So there's an incredible podcast. There are multiple podcasts where you can go deeper on your strengths. There's lots of kind of conversation and tips on how to do this with teams. So lots of free resources online on Gallup's website. So I'll just share that. Um, typically, for a leader who wants to do this work with their team, step one is, um, being open to doing the work themselves, like, first. So taking the assessment, doing a coaching session with a certified coach, or whatever journey they want to take, and being able to really be in relationship with their own strengths. Greater self awareness, greater self regulation. How do I not over index, let's say, if I have competition in my top strengths, when can that get in the way of my team feeling ease? Right. So, working with a coach or on their own journey to really clarify their own strengths and sort of get bought in. And the next step would be to do that process with, uh, their team. Every time leaders are strapped for time, they really want to jump to implementation. But with the team, the first step is allowing the team to just better understand, what are my strengths? What am I naturally good at? When do I tap into ideation? When do I tap into significance? Why is this important to me? Um, when am I at m my best? When am I at my worst? When are we, as a team, at our best? When are we not at our worst? What can we learn from that? And then the next phase is called the team grid. So you can take everybody's strengths, their top five and put out a grid and be able to say, okay, as a team, where are we strong? Are we strong execution? Are we a strong influencing team? Are we a strong relationship building team? So there's four domains. So that's when you, as a team, can spend more time to kind of really understand what is naturally coming to us with more ease. And then where do we have some gaps and how do we want to address that? How might we tap into our strengths collectively? So, let's say a team is high relationship building, but they need to fundraise a lot of money. They're saying, okay, I need to influence people to donate to our organization. We don't have a lot of influencing strengths, so let's just name it, right? And then explore, as a team, how might we tap into relationship building or high execution? Strategic thinking, strengths. The four domains. How could we tap into those to get to achieve our goal, because you don't need any different strengths than what you have. You just need to be able to learn how to really leverage what your natural strengths are, to kind of aim them towards your goal. And then there's a million other things I could go on forever, but that's like the kind of core process. Bryant Alexander: What a process. Very thorough. It sounds like. I think it sounds like it's just the little things that you have to consider. And what I mean by that is first knowledge of self. So, just knowing you, that's where it all starts. And I think that's true for any type of coaching or any type of transformation that you're trying to make, whether it be personally or professionally. And then it's like, okay, I need to bring people along for the journey. All right, let's see where you kind of stand as far as strengths or your personal ambitions. It's like just being curious about another person. I've been curious about myself. Now I'm curious about someone else, right? And then it's like, how do we bring. Then the third step, it sounds like, how do we bring this thing together? What's our zone? What's our strengths? How do we work as a collective? But then also, let's talk about where we aren't as strong at, and how do we actually play into that, or how do we figure out ways to, uh, strengthen those areas where we might not be as competent. So it just sounds like the details. Um, as far as understanding people is the most important thing when it comes to just not only strengths, but just actually having an effective and impactful team, um, a like minded team, and individuals who actually want to show up to work and actually want to work for you. So it sounds like there's just a lot of value there. Rupa Rihan: Yeah, I had to write it down while you were sharing Bryant. Laurel Elders: It's like the power of understanding our inner diversity and how to bring the diversity within us together to create this new, amazing outcome, bring in other people as needed. And I also, Rupa, I love what you said about "when does the strength get in the way? " So I wanted to talk about that a little bit more because we think, "oh, the strength, it's only always great. " And I've personally learned in my life that's not always true. Sometimes our strengths can get in the way. Rupa Rihan: Yeah. I love that you mentioned that, Laurel. And, I think I had mentioned to you in another conversation how much I appreciated the email that you send out to people on the list for the institute and how you were talking a little bit about positivity and positivity and positive psychology, just that body of work and different sides of it. And so I love that you're always thinking about that. Um, yeah. To kind of piggyback off of the self awareness of what we were talking about earlier, when we think about the goal of strengths in addition to what we've all talked about, it's like self knowledge, self awareness, um, and also self regulation. And when I heard that word self regulation used in the strengths world, it really sat with me. It felt powerful is what I'm trying to say. And so when you say, "how can strengths get in the way", or when can they hinder us? I think of self regulation, right? Like, how do we regulate how much we're tapping into a strength, or when we're noticing we're over indexing on it? So, to give you an example from one of your strengths Laurel, people with achiever, some of my clients with achiever will often talk about, know it's a strength. It helps me get things done. I have a list. I can achieve a lot. I can move the needle. And then sometimes they may express, "my achiever is getting in the way of me being able to take a risk, try something new, because I really want to be successful and I want it to be perfect". Laurel Elders: Right. Rupa Rihan: My achiever- when I'm just too in touch with my achiever, I am paralyzed by perfectionism. Laurel Elders: Right. Rupa Rihan: And part of my journey is like, yeah, when do I want to tap into achiever to get things done? And then when do I want to pull back a know and maybe tap into relator, for example, using one of your strengths, Laurel, to be able to learn what's possible and learn a different way of doing things, maybe it won't be as efficient as how I had originally thought I was going to get this done, but I actually find deep fulfillment with getting to really connect with other people and learn a new possibility. And so I want to be able to do that more in my life. I want space for that. And so creating space for more of my relator strength might mean letting go of a little bit of my achiever. Laurel Elders: So it's like using strengths in tandem, it sounds like. Rupa Rihan: Yeah, we have, like, a theme. If you actually want Laurel with your report, you can sign back into your Gallup account. And there's a new top five report that came out last month. And it does show you your Strengths in pair in a tandem. For me, it's like empathy and positivity. All of them can be paired, but it'll give you like a little explanation. So go check that out. But yeah, I think that's, um, a good way of thinking about it. I kind of like to think of them as like a toolbox. I'm like, okay, I need to do this. I'm meeting with somebody to go over the design and facilitation of a session at ten. It's like, okay, I've got ideation, got positivity, I've got strategic, got futuristic, I've got relator developer. What do I want to tap into? Um, in order to help me get to this outcome that allows me to, um, self m regulate it a little bit more. Um, but yeah, I can overtap into positivity and everyone's like, chill. You don't always need to move people to a, uh, positive place. There's value in allowing for the experience. So it's something I have to really work on with positivity and ideation. As you can tell, uh, ideation is something I always have to manage because it's like too many ideas. I have to self regulate it. Sometimes that's not helpful for this space. Sometimes the space is about deciding and executing. Laurel Elders: Mhm. Yeah, that makes sense. Bryant Alexander: I like how you said it's like a toolkit. I kind of see it like a c-suite. If anything, I'm really into just seeing yourself as a constantly evolving startup. And you were like, oh, I have this meeting going. Let me tap into this, let me tap into this strength. Let me tap into that strength. But it's kind of like the reverse of the inner critic. If anything, it's just like acknowledging that, uh oh, I have all these positive personas that I can tap into. Which one do I need for this meeting? And having that awareness of it really makes it that much easier. So that's powerful. It's like a little internal c-suite. Who needs to show up to this meeting? How am I going to show up? What's going to work best for me? Laurel Elders: I love that. It's like, it's activating new ideas, new relationships, new possibilities. Rupa Rihan: Yeah, totally. To both of your points. I think when we can just feel more free to be who we naturally truly are, like our - I'm just pausing because, I had a coaching session once with Michael from the institute, and I remember him bringing up personal sovereignty. "What does that definition mean to you? " So maybe as I was just sort of trying to share this journey of really feeling free to just accept who we are on the inside, that word came to mind. And so my experience with leaders is, like, when we can do that, we can just achieve so much more of what we really want to. Things fall into place. I know I sound like a strengths commercial, but it really has changed my life. So I am just like- I like to bring it to more people. Laurel Elders: Is there a distinction between strengths and gifts? Because in Enneagram, we talk about, like, these are the gifts of this personality type. So I was just curious on that. Rupa Rihan: Enneagram just came up yesterday. I did a walking coaching session, which I loved, um, at the lake here in Oakland. And the client I was with was like, I'm an enneagram three. And so we were talking about it. In this definition in the Gallup definition, we define talent as a naturally reoccurring pattern of thoughts, beliefs, and action. That might be, like, one word off, but a natural reoccurring pattern of thoughts, beliefs, and action. And then we define strength as the talent that you naturally have, these natural patterns, and then amount of time you invest in that talent to develop it into a strength. So you could be a naturally talented, let's say, like, you're naturally talented, creative, you're great at drawing. This is outside of the model, but your ability to make it into a strength would be how much time, hours you actually invest in building out that strength. So, similarly, let's say, in communication, for example, which is a strength in the Gallup model, a lot of people are naturally good communicators. You both are incredible, in my opinion. But people will invest the time, the energy, grad school practice, and maybe aim that into being someone like Obama, who can deliver a near perfect speech. So it's just such a strength because of all the time he's invested and also just his natural talent, the combination. So the gifts part is interesting because I guess maybe there's, like - I don't know the enneagram enough - like, maybe there's a synonym, a bit, between gifts and talent, but I don't know. What do you think, Laurel? Laurel Elders: Well, I'm an Enneagram Five, "The Investigator". So now I'm going to go investigate! Bryant Alexander: There you go. Laurel Elders: I want to know, because to me, the truth of these, any assessment really just brings to life more self awareness and more so that we can really tap into what is there and be aware of what's not there. And see how that can help us help inform our life path on this journey in this great big world of ours. Rupa Rihan: Right. Yeah. Let me know. Laurel Elders: I will. Yes. Maybe we have a part two. And just curious, before we wrap up, how do you use strengths in coaching? Because I know coaching is in and of itself, it defaults to helping people get in touch with the "yes". The strengths, the gifts, all of the yes of that person. So I'm curious, how does that show up for you in your coaching? Rupa Rihan: Mhm. Um, two examples. So one is sort of a more structured way in coaching where we can do that, name it, claim it, aim it process with a client so we can apply that to a goal. So we can say, okay, let's first name your strengths. What are your top strengths? And then let's claim them. How do they show up for you? And then let's aim it. So what is a specific goal that you want to achieve? And we would define all the parameters and then we would take the actual strengths. And there's different worksheets and resources that Gallup has, simple ones to help with this process that I'm happy to share with the community. But, we would say, okay, how are you going to aim developer to launch this new program? How are you going to aim responsibility? Specifically, what are two examples of what you're going to do to aim this strength? What are two examples for what you're going to do to aim connectedness? So that's like one kind of technical tool that we'll use with clients and, um, that I've used before, which can be helpful because it's simple but it's asset based, it's not so overwhelming. Um, it's a little more motivating. The second, example is I have three, uh, career coaching clients that I'm starting with this week, last week, which is super exciting. And so looking at their strengths report has been so helpful. So one of them has, number one, futuristic, um, and also has responsibility and belief, um, like you, Laurel, in their top ten. And so when I saw futuristic for number one, I was like, this person is going to love visioning. This person is really going to be motivated by us getting very clear on what is the future vision, what is the goal, what are we driving towards, what will be possible in your life? And then they also had some really strong execution themes that allow me to know, okay, they're probably going to want to move things forward. They may not need as much, um, encouragement or accountability in the same way as somebody who might have high ideation, but maybe low discipline like myself. And then I have another client who has high deliberate, who I'm starting with in her top five. And so that makes me know that this person really wants to make sure the time is well spent and that it's very clear kind of what we're doing, why we're doing it, where it's going to lead. So that informs how I'm communicating our coaching relationship, our goals, and a bit about how I approach doing the work with this client, even from my emails to, um, my coaching practice. So I actually think it's so helpful. And sometimes we can make assumptions based on maybe some small things we know about somebody. And when we see the report, we're like, oh, actually, this person has these strengths and motivations that I didn't know about. So it really helps me to customize the coaching and tap into their natural motivations. Laurel Elders: Yeah, that's great. All right. We are, at time, as always, so bittersweet. So thank you, Rupa, so much for joining us. Thank you both. Pleasure. And we hope that today's mastery tip is a lantern to your path with coaching. And it's our mission to elevate human potential through the art and the science of masterful coaching. If you're an individual or organizational leader seeking to bring coaching into what you do, please reach out to us. You can connect with Bryant here on LinkedIn or his email is [email protected]. And Bryant, do you want to share a little bit about our module one coming up? Bryant Alexander: Yes, uh, we are about two weeks out from Module One: Coaching Fundamentals. So March 22! It will be a full day of the fundamentals around everything you need to know around coaching. So 6 hours. Now, you might be wondering, how much does this cost? Well, we have scholarships available, so please reach out to me. This is really a program that's going to- if you're curious about coaching or if you're trying to understand what are the foundational elements it takes to be a coach, this is for you. All right, so if you have any questions, please reach out to me. I can tell you everything about the program. I am a student and I recently wrapped up my coursework, um, about a couple of weeks ago, actually. If you're really trying to generate self awareness, if you're trying to take more steps to be a more coach-like leader or you're looking to start your own coaching business, I'm here to support. Let's have a conversation. I want to just help provide clarity to help you make decisions. It's a coaching call. You basically get a free coaching call with me. That's how I put it. So please reach out to me and I'm happy to help with any questions you have. Laurel Elders: Thank you. And Rupa, if somebody wants to work with you as, ah, a coach and strengths coach, how do they find you? Rupa Rihan: Um, I'm on LinkedIn, I am on Instagram. I have a website, https://www.rupadevrihan.com. So find me on LinkedIn. Um, find my website. They can message me, can email me. I'm easy to find and I would love to work with anybody who wants to dive deeper in this work. And I'd love to be a resource for any coaches, um, in our network that are curious about how to integrate this into their practice. Like, um, totally happy to give suggestions or worksheets or podcast episodes. That's the relator and connectedness in me. So yeah, use me as a resource. Laurel Elders: Thank you. And we'll also, um, post a link to you when we post these below. And we help companies increase business performance and leadership impact by developing coaching talent and creating coaching cultures. So if you are a leader, a director in learning and development or HR, we would love to help you elevate what you're already doing through a coaching lens. So reach out and you can learn more at IntegrativeIntelligence.Global. Thank you for joining us. We hope to see you next week. Bye. Bryant Alexander: See you. Rupa Rihan: Bye. |
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