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Click on the image below to watch on YouTube:  Laurel Elders:
We're going to dive into part two today, which I'm really excited about. So I just want to say welcome to our coaching equips. These are weekly coaching tips that equip coaches, future coaches, and coachlike leaders to help them develop their excellence in coaching. I'm Laurel Elders, founder of the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. I'm a master certified coach with the International Coaching Federation, and I got my start as a professional coach in 2005, which I like to say is when I became an official coaching geek. And, I have with me today Jill Aronoff. Jill is a leadership coach and will be here to be with us in this discussion. Bryant could not make it. If he ends up being able to make it, he did say he would hop on. So, Bryant, we miss you today. I also want to point out that we host these equips every Tuesday, 12:00 p. m.. Eastern. And if you'd like to receive these in your inbox, we will include a link to our newsletter below. You can sign up and stay in touch that way. All right, so today's topic is part two, drawing the line between coaching and therapy. So today we're going to be exploring some of those considerations when it comes to more of the liability and also the scope of practice of each. Last week, we covered where to draw the line, how to draw the line, and why to draw the line between coaching and therapy. We also covered the primary reasons for confusion around coaching, and we also covered a garden metaphor for healing and growth. So if you missed that episode, we will also place a link to it, um, after this chat, so you can check that out as well. All right, so today, like I said, we're just going to dive right into scope of practice. And also, what is liability and how does that come into play? Jill Aronoff: I am so excited to be covering this because it's such an interesting topic, for sure. And I'm curious, how would you define coaching scope? Laurel Elders: To me, the scope of practice for coaches falls under the umbrella very simple, personal and professional development. It's really just focused on goal attainment, skill development, personal expansion, self-actualization. So reaching our potential. Jill Aronoff: Mmmm I love that. That is so powerful to work with potential, for sure. And what about therapy? How would you define that scope? Laurel Elders: So, therapy has a much different scope of practice. Therapists are trained and licensed to help guide people through emotional healing, emotional well being, to really address and also treat traumas and, addiction anything that has become larger than someone can address on their own. Jill Aronoff: That makes perfect sense. Yeah. And what comes to mind is liability. Laurel Elders: Mhm. Yeah. So liability. And one thing I like to say when it comes to liability is coaching is a self regulated industry. That's what we call self regulated or peer regulated. Sorry, peer regulated. Um, in peer regulated industries. The reason some industries are peer regulated is because there is low risk for harm. Whereas um, in therapy the person coming to the therapist really needs to know where harm. Ttherapists are trained to know where the line of harm is drawn. And so that's the rationale behind licensing, making sure that that person is completely educated in where that line is drawn, how to completely avoid, causing harm, intentional or non intentional. And coaching is very low liability when it's done professionally. When the coach is educated on the distinctions, because I've seen it go in the other direction. When the coach is not using counseling and therapy in their practice, they are just coaching. Jill Aronoff: Yeah, definitely. So I'm wondering how does a coach know where to draw the line? Laurel Elders: So sticking with scope and a professionally trained coach will know exactly when, where and why to refer out to a licensed therapist. Because if something is outside of our scope of practice, we understand that we would actually be not helping the client if we continued to work with them. It is best to do a handoff at that point and refer out. And I also want to speak a little bit to harm. Right. So what is harm? That seems so nebulous. Jill Aronoff: I was wondering that too. Laurel Elders: Yeah. So an example of harm is somebody's nervous system getting activated and heightened to the point where the client can't come down from it for months. It can be months, it can be weeks. So working with a licensed therapist, they know how to walk with someone through that process and how to help them through whatever is coming up for them. And there's even I've spoken to, I've got some friends that are therapists. Some therapists specialize in trauma. Not every therapist is trauma trained. So that's interesting. Or specializes in trauma, definitely. Jill Aronoff: And it seems like trauma. There's like this gray line here. And I know from taking the courses that it's very clear. And you've learned through your training where you draw that line. It becomes very clear. Laurel Elders: Yes. I would say with the education it becomes clear, yes. And last week we talked a little bit about the distinctions between education and training and I think sometimes that's confused. So someone might avoid the education because they're assuming they don't need the training, which that may or may not be true. Right. Some people might already have training in the skills or have the skills, but the education side, I think everyone, if you are stepping into the coaching world, I always say be educated, be informed, because we don't know what we don't know. And that's where the biggest blind spot exists. Right? Jill Aronoff: Right. Laurel Elders: No, there's things we don't know, but it's the things that we don't know that we don't know. That's where it gets sticky. And that's the biggest blind spot I've seen. Jill Aronoff: Exactly. And it really builds your confidence to have that education. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Yes. Jill Aronoff: So I'm wondering, you said that there's low liability for professional coaching. Why is that? Laurel Elders: There's actually six reasons why professional coaching. I'm talking about educated and trained coaches. I can't speak for others - if a coach is using the word "coach", sometimes people aren't coaching, but they use the word "coach". So I just want to make that distinction. A professionally trained and educated coach is lower liability because: 1) Coaches are trained, we're not trained to assess. We do not assess, we do not diagnose, and we do not treat. We are actually trained to remove our bias so we're not stepping, um, on the toes of the client. The client is in charge. 2) The second reason is because the coach is educated on what we were just talking about, when, how, and why to refer out to a licensed therapist if the client is facing an issue that is outside of the scope of coaching. 3) The third is that the client, in coaching, the client is 100% responsible for their outcomes. So the coach is an expert in coaching. The client is the expert of themselves, and the coach completely honors that. So we set aside our biases in honor of what is the client's wisdom, what is the client's truth, what are the hidden potentials? All of those. Jill Aronoff: Yeah, definitely. I love that. Laurel Elders: The coach is also educated on how to teach the client. So, we're not coaching when we're setting up our professional relationship. We're teaching the client what coaching is and also what coaching is not. So, that is clearly articulated in a contract so that the client knows exactly what they are signing up for. Jill Aronoff: So what do you do if a client kind of pushes the boundaries? Laurel Elders: Do you have an example? Jill Aronoff: Well, I'm thinking if a client says, well, I don't want to go to a therapist, can we just talk about what happened? My trauma? Laurel Elders: Yeah, that does happen. It does happen. Coaching is kind of like the sexy thing to sign up for. Right, right. It has really grown in popularity. Yeah, I'd love to see. Have you come across that in your coaching? Jill Aronoff: I have a little bit, definitely. I have a couple of clients that try to push the boundaries many times, and what I do is I always refer back to our agreement and the definitions of what coaching is and what counseling and therapy is. And I offer support in helping to find a therapist or to find resources. Not necessarily to find a therapist, but find resources to find a therapist. Laurel Elders: Yeah, same. If something is outside of my scope, I am very clear about that because I don't want to waste anybody's time or energy. So just being very clear, this is outside of my scope. And sometimes that's even a personal preference for a coach. Let's say the coach just went through divorce. The coach might draw a boundary and say, I'm not coaching in that because I'm not able to be clear of my bias. And we're trained in how to have that awareness. So, that's something else to really consider. Jill Aronoff: Yeah. So we're at number four. Laurel Elders: 4) Four is educating what coaching, is and is not. 5) Then five, coach outlines coaches responsibilities and then the client responsibilities. So the client is responsible to take action. The client is responsible to direct the direction of the program. So if the program is not going in the direction the client wants, the client has complete agency to say, hey, I want to switch gears. That's something that's very unique to coaching as well. 6) And then six, the client, oh, this is connected - the client directs the program. Coach client responsibilities. Um, they have that agency to direct their own program, and switch gears as they see fit. And then another one is really the heart of coaching. So this is actually, I'm going to add a 7th one here. 7) The client is viewed as the expert. So in coaching, I always like to say we can be the expert, in something external, but we'll never be the expert of someone else's truth. And a coach really sits in honor of that wisdom and invites the client to really explore what is within you that is wanting to awaken. Jill Aronoff: Yeah, I love it when a client reaches that awakenedness and they realize it for themselves and it's just so much more powerful. Laurel Elders: Yes. So there you have it. If coaching is done authentically in the scope of, um, the client is in charge, the client is the one with their own answers. The client is the expert of themselves. Coaching is very low liability because we don't even advise so if a client is coming to us and saying, I'd like advice, the coach can get curious and say, okay, is this external information you're needing or are they just wanting someone else to provide an answer? And what's that about? Is that a power leak? Right. So these are just questions the coach can ask to see what is it the client is actually needing and put them in touch with a resource that can help. Jill Aronoff: Yeah, definitely. Laurel Elders: But the other thing I'd say about that is it's not that we just leave all of our resources at the door. Coaches can make suggestions or have resources to offer. Absolutely right. Different coaches have different niches. So I like to have leadership resources handy for my clients as just one example. But the difference is that I'm offering possibilities. I'm never saying this is what you need. The client gets to determine, oh yes, that's a great resource. I want to try that out. Clients in charge. Clients in charge, right, definitely. Jill Aronoff: And I love how in the training, it's really understood and taught to have a take it or leave it attitude. Laurel Elders: Yes. And you know what's fascinating to me is that approach is so important because if we talk about the first journey, the second journey of reaching potential, if we're shown the way, we're only going to get so far. So if the coach steps in and starts leading, the client's not doing the work. So who's doing the development? Nobody. Jill Aronoff: Right. Laurel Elders: Is not happening. So there is a purpose beyond I mean, it's a bigger picture purpose. When we don't let the client off the hook to come up with their own solutions, we're like, you've got the answer, you've got the answer. And we really invite them to step into that. Jill Aronoff: Right. And I remember when I first started learning how to coach I am an overachiever, so I always wanted to achieve something in the session and I went to my coach about this and had some coaching sessions around it and came to the realization myself. It was such a great example of, oh, this isn't about me when I'm coaching somebody, it's about them. So I want to meet them to where they are in their coaching journey. So it was really, um, a great experience to have that example through my self awakening of how to bring that to somebody else. Laurel Elders: Yeah, I love that perspective. It's a shift, isn't it? Jill Aronoff: It is a huge shift. And as soon as I was able to make that, my coaching was so much smoother. Laurel Elders: Mhm. Same. Jill Aronoff: And my clients had that awakening moment. So much easier for themselves. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Oh, can I share something embarrassing? Jill Aronoff: Yes, please. Laurel Elders: When I first started out coaching, I was like, okay, so I really have to formulate questions that get the client to this realization. And it's like, no. Jill Aronoff: Right. Laurel Elders: Introducing bias that's leading them so they're not self generating if I'm stepping in and focusing them on this perspective. But if I ask a completely open ended question, that's not leading them to look at this one spot, they might go in any direction. It's brilliant if you think about it. Jill Aronoff: Uh, it is. And I feel like the key to that is curiosity. Laurel Elders: Yes. It's just pure curiosity. That's one of the coaching skills to develop. What a fun one, right. Well, I love investigating. So, like, ooh, what's the truth about this? Jill Aronoff: It is so fun, and it's really fun to understand how other people think, not how I think. Laurel Elders: Yes, that is such a good point. See, now we're geeking out on coaching. Um, I know it's amazing, and I've talked to so many other coaches. I'm not sure if you share this experience, but the coach says, I've learned so much from coaching my clients. Yes, I've learned. Jill Aronoff: Every session I learned something. Laurel Elders: Yeah. All right, so I just want to circle back a little bit to the harm side, because there's really two types of harm that we want to consider when it comes to scope and liability. And I know these are heavier topics, but they're really important. I feel that people are educated enough to understand, okay, this is why therapists are licensed and fully educated, and this is why coaches are trained in their scope and trained how to refer out. So the first one is intentional. And you might think, like, who the heck would intentionally cause harm? Well, there are sadly, we saw this massively in the cult, um, nexium. That is an example of intentional harm. The people were conscious of what they were doing intentionally causing harm for their own means, and they were training coaches. And I watched the documentary. The coaches were doing zero coaching. They were doing therapy on people without any education or background in therapy or psychology. In many cases, mind blowing. But they called it coaching because what else could they call it? Right. Jill Aronoff: Right. Laurel Elders: Just slap that word on there. Right. That's an example of intentional harm. That is way more rare. We don't see that as much. I have not seen that as much. Unintentional harm is the other thing that pops up. Unintentional harm can happen if, for example, sometimes therapists might create coach training programs without understanding the scope differential. And so then the coach is graduating from that program, but actually is not coaching their counseling. And there's just not some great awareness around that. So it's not that that's a "bad" thing. It's just that the liability can go way up and it could turn into unintentional harm. Right. So if you're out there considering, like, oh, do I want to go into therapy or do I want to go into coaching? Just know, just be educated. Be educated. Where do you want to be doing your work in the world? Jill Aronoff: Yeah. Is there any kind of training for therapists that want to move into coaching? Laurel Elders: Coach training. Yeah, we, have therapists coming through the program all the time that are either transitioning or just adding coaching to their practice. So in the coaching world, the ICF has now. I love that they've done had, they put definition around level one and level two trainings. It used to be more, acronym based, but the current language is level one and level two. So level one is perfect for therapists that are transitioning into, or, sorry. That are adding coaching skills to what they're already doing. So let's say one of their clients gets, they've done their inner healing work and now they're ready to self develop. So adding those coaching skills, that level one training is perfect. It enhances the work that they do with their client. The other level two is designed more for therapists that are transitioning out of the therapy model and into the self development, personal professional development model and really helping people come up with their own solutions, future focused. And all of that. Jill Aronoff: Perfect. In fact, I have a link. I'm going to put it in the chat if there's therapists out there and want to learn more. Laurel Elders: Yes. Great. Thank you. And I'd say the other thing that is really under consideration and on some coaches hearts is, trauma informed coaching. So I just wanted to bring that one up. USo in coaching, we don't coach the trauma. We want to be trauma informed because that can help us really, know. Oh, now's the time to refer. It's. Hadn't done that in a while. Jill Aronoff: Yeah. Laurel Elders: Here's Bryant. Welcome! Bryant Alexander: Hello. I am here. Good to see you all. Jill Aronoff: Good to see you. Bryant Alexander: It sounds like Laurel was just getting out of what Laurel does best, just breaking down. What do we mean by trauma? Here's how it fits. Bigger picture. So, I didn't want to interrupt, but I just wanted to join to see how everything was going great. Jill Aronoff: Yeah. Laurel Elders: Good to have you. Yeah. We're just talking about trauma informed coaching, or being trauma informed as a coach. So looking at, we're not coaching the trauma now. If someone is on the other side of the trauma, right, then the coaching really works. But if there is an active trauma, then we refer out. And as coaches, we can be trauma informed, we can understand the impact that trauma has on our clients. Right. And be really respectful and empathetic of whatever the client is going through. But we're not actually coaching the trauma, so I just wanted to make that distinction. Bryant Alexander: Got you. Okay, sounds good. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Jill Aronoff: So are there any blind spots? Laurel Elders: The blind spot to me is when someone doesn't know what they don't know. Mhm. Yeah. That could show up in so many different ways, but understanding, so being educated in scope. Being educated when, where, why to refer out, being educated where to draw the line. Just having that education and understanding, it's not going to serve the client if we step outside of our scope of practice and our liability goes way up if we do so. Jill Aronoff: Mhm. Bryant Alexander: It's a lot of education behind that, though, when it comes to, I guess, for the client. And I know we have to be very delicate. Like you said, we don't want to coach the trauma. I heard you correctly. Right. So it's so much that goes into trauma because I think that when we think about trauma, it immediately kind of goes to. It's stuff that happened in my past, but we don't really dive into hereditary trauma or just like, especially, in the many different contexts that, trauma kind of shows up, especially as a person of color, I think there's a lot there and there's so much information out there, about how to actually deal with this trauma. So I guess let's say a client, wants to talk to you about trauma and just like how it's showing up. How would you be, I guess skillful with that conversation? We don't want to coach it, but how are you going to be skillful? Because you can probably see it or probably fill it as the coach, but how can you be just more skillful with it and just helping them kind of explore the. Laurel Elders: Mhm. Those are really, those are deep questions, Brian, I love that you went there. Know, as you were talking, I'm like, okay, so maybe there's a distinction between an active trauma or a trauma that we are bringing with us, but maybe it's not activated. So is that part of us coachable? So in coaching, we always say can the, client hold the coaching? So hold the coaching. Is the coaching working or is it not going anywhere? So usually, um, if there's an active wound, then the coaching can only get so far. It blocks the second journey because the person's not ready yet. There's got to be something that is addressed first before they can continue the self growth part. I don't know if that answers the question, but those are some things that come to mind to consider. Bryant Alexander: I think you kind of talked about it last week, because I know that you weren't always really for therapy, or like, maybe you weren't for therapy. Laurel Elders: It's just - I had resistance. Bryant Alexander: You had a little bit resistance to it, but you were like, I like this coaching thing. But you realized that you couldn't move forward in your coaching unless, you were able to address something in therapy. So I guess, can you just kind of talk about that connection there? And I guess not describe your trauma, but just, was there trauma involved in that process? Laurel Elders: Yes, absolutely. So I think, I always was kind of this rebellious, and then when I had negative experiences with therapists growing up, which happens. Right. I've talked to a lot of people that they haven't had a positive experience. Turning to coaching helped me gain some self awareness so that then I could see the therapeutic process through a whole new lens and appreciate it. And I found a therapist that was really aligned with me. And I think that even in coaching, coaching or therapy, you need someone that's a really good fit. So, yeah, it was interesting. As with everything, is it all or nothing? Bryant Alexander: No, always that and that word and is powerful. What about you, Jill? As far as whether you're coaching or whether you've been through coaching yourself, how have you kind of dealt with the trauma, moved through the trauma, explored the trauma, how have you gone about doing so? Jill Aronoff: Um, yeah, it's a great question. And I have had therapy myself. And, um, it's funny, when I first learned about life coaching, I was like, well, why would somebody go to a coach instead of just go to therapy? And I think it's because I was very immersed in therapy and I didn't understand the differences. But I love working with clients that are doing the therapy and digging in their past and then taking that understanding and working forward and working with me as their coach or working with any coach in that forward movement. In my coaching sessions, where I am the client, I know. Okay, here's the line. I don't want to go fall into therapy, but I can still talk about my therapy and what I've learned in therapy and use that with coaching to. Bryant Alexander: Get to where I want to m. Agreed, agreed, agreed. It's funny you say that, because, I've been through therapy, and I was telling Laurel a little bit about it, last week, but I guess just to expound on it and how it's really helped me be a little bit more prepared for coaching. So, overall, vulnerability is, like, a tough thing for me. It's like, even moments as far as where I think that I'm being vulnerable, it's like, you're not really being vulnerable. And my coach had to call it out, right. And it's like, I know where it comes from and I know the foundation of it, and it is a little bit of trauma there, but I think because I had the awareness around it, but now the coach is there to say, like, hey, you do a lot of teaching. Why don't you share more? You can teach and share. So he wasn't critiquing me that I wasn't sharing. He was like, you could be doing more to have a bigger impact. And, it's just funny, like, how that dynamic was there because I'm able to talk about that trauma, and it comes from my parents and all these other things that I've been through, and I've just never been a big sharer just in my life. But when it came to, um, working with my coach, she was like, we still got to work on this. This isn't going to work. And you would think that you would go back to a therapist for that. But because I had that awareness around it already, I was able to say, like, I know where it comes from. This is what it is. So now my coach is like, okay, we got to work on this because you could be doing more. And that's what I expect somebody that's going to tell me, like, hey, I see that you're doing something here, but it's more that you can be doing. He just summed it up like, you do a lot of teaching, but you do not share. You don't share enough. And he said, that's really just important for you as a coach, but just, like, as a person, right? How can you really connect with somebody if you're hiding these different pieces of you? And that's because we built the relationship over time and a lot of different things. Go ahead. Laurel Elders: I'm just curious. Are you talking about your mentor coach or coach supervisor? Bryant Alexander: Just my coach that I have outside of the institute? Yeah, good question. Yes. So I have my own coach as well, and also thankful for the coaches at the institute as well. So, yes, it is something that I've been exploring, something that I really want to work hard on because I think that it's kind of like a part of that integration that we speak about at the institute. Um, so it's powerful work, but, I just can't walk around with the shadow. I guess that's what I've been kind of looking at it as, like, shadow work, uh, revealing those different parts of my personality that, might not be deemed as favorable or will be judged. So I'm just doing, like, I look at it as shadow work because I love personal improvement. So now that I'm able to label, it's like, okay, what can we do to actually make it happen or take steps in it? Laurel Elders: Well, I think you bring up a really good point, and it sounds like your coach stepped in almost like a mentor in a moment to say, like, hey, here's a bigger picture. What do you think? And that we've talked, too, about. So what about mentoring? Right. Mentoring is not necessarily counseling. And so where does mentoring fit in? And can a coach, we had a whole segment on, can a coach wear dual hats? Should a coach wear dual hats? Mhm. What's the purpose? Is it helping the client? Is it taking away from them, activating their own? Own? Their own, yeah. Jill Aronoff: And I get pulled into that so often with my clients doing leadership coaching that they want mentorship. And I like to use the example of Laurel. I know you love to climb of the climber, and if you are climbing and you get to an overhang, that's really tough. A mentor and you're not sure how to get up, a mentor is going to put their hand out, pull you to the top, you feel good because the top. But coach is going to act like the belay and is going to hold on to you and bring that trust into the situation so that the client has a chance to just really look around and think, how am I going to get over this overhang? I am not going left because that is way too hard. And a coach may say, okay, well, if you look over to the right, what do you see? And now the client sees, uh, something that was always there, and now they see it for themselves. They say, I got this. They get up to the top, and now they feel amazing because they got themselves there. Laurel Elders: I love that distinction, Jill, because in the beginning of our awakening, whatever that is, personal, professional we do need someone to say, put your foot there. Just trust me. Put your foot there. And then we go, great, I can do then. But there comes a point when if I'm on a climb and somebody keeps telling me what to do, I'm never going to develop the skills to really just get up there myself. Yeah, that's a great distinction. Bryant Alexander: Yeah, love the metaphors. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Well, and then I know, a lot of companies will use mentoring because, the leaders, it's very appropriate to mentor someone into a position. So if you're a leader really considering, at what point do I mentor versus bringing in coaching and having the employee, the contributor, self develop the team? Self develop? Bryant Alexander: M that's a good question. Because, again, mentorship is more so, I guess I look at it as advising. It's maybe somebody that might be in a position that you would like to be in. It's like, how did you get there? So this is more so, like, here's my journey, here's some tactics, some tips. Coaching, as we've been discussing, is just that opportunity with the mountain. I want to figure out where to put my feet at. And when I get to the top, I feel so much more complete or fulfilled because I did this. But my coach was there, um, as kind of the support more so it's a skill that really has to be developed. And, I'm glad you made that differentiation because, um, my coach was there to play that mentor role because usually he doesn't do that, but he was there to say, like, seeing something, man. Yeah, here's what you need to do. And then he actually followed up with a question like, what does radical vulnerability look like for you? So the coaching came right back afterwards and I was just like, it's a powerful question. I don't know what that looks like. So it was just a good balance, a good support hand that helped me up the mountain. It's helping me up the, yeah. Laurel Elders: Yeah. I love Jill - you were, you were sharing with me how when we'd interviewed Janet Harvey and she talked about the bring - when do I ask for mentoring? When do I ask for coaching and where that distinction, know and what's needed. Jill Aronoff: I love that podcast. It's one of my favorites. I'm going to look for the link right now and put it in the chat. Laurel Elders: Yeah, that's, great. That was an excellent episode, and I think maybe that's the heart of it. What is needed? What is needed? Bryant Alexander: Yes. Laurel Elders: Bottom line. And who gets to determine that? Bryant Alexander: The client usually, right. Jill Aronoff: Period. Laurel Elders: And no matter whether it's therapy or counseling or mentoring or coaching. Right. Client gets to determine, what do I need? All right, so, any other things we should be considering in professional scope or liability before we hop off today? Bryant Alexander: I hopped on late, but it sounds like you, ah, all were holding it down, so thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you, Jill, for, being a part of this today. And also, I got to learn a little bit about you, so we got to keep these conversations going. Jill Aronoff: Yeah, definitely. This has been so enlightening and fun for me, too. And it's great to have you here. Bryant Alexander: Thank you. Laurel Elders: Yeah. Thanks, everyone, for joining us. And next week, we are going to dive into the secret sauce of motivation, because it's often hidden. So it's really cool to explore, what role does motivation have? And it's often unseen. It's not a seen aspect. So that'll be, I think, a fun, deeper dive. All right. So, we hope today's mastery tips are a lantern for your path with coaching, it is our mission to elevate human potential through both the art and the science of masterful coaching. If you're an individual or organizational leader seeking to bring coaching into what you do, please reach out to us. Bryant is here on LinkedIn, here to help, you connect with the different options that we offer. And, I always like to say, if you're joining from another platform besides LinkedIn Live, you can reach Bryant at: [email protected]. We also help companies increase business performance and leadership impact by developing coaching talent and creating coaching cultures. So, if you are interested in more information about that, you can reach out as well. And to learn more, you can visit us at: integrativeintelligence.global. And "Last call". Go ahead, Bryant! Bryant Alexander: This is where I get excited. Last call. So, Friday, March 22. That is this Friday. We have our coaching fundamentals. If you're curious about coaching, if you are currently running your own coaching company and looking to really go through the process or get a better understanding of how you can be a better coach, if you are a leader at an organization looking to become more coach like, we are here to support. So, March 22, we will have our Coaching Fundamentals, and we have scholarships available for that. Right? We have a big class right now, so spots are limited. Okay? So I want to emphasize that, but if you really want to come for a powerful experience led by the whole team at the institute for Integrative Intelligence, please reach out to me. We're going to have a powerful session. It's 6 hours of your day. We have a great cohort so far. So many different people from so many different backgrounds. I think we've got construction, consulting, education. We have a lot of different backgrounds. So if you are interested in attending, please reach out to me. Again, we have scholarships available. And when I say scholarships, I mean that you don't have to worry about anything. For the most part, you just got to show up. Okay? So if you would like to learn more about that opportunity, please reach out to me. I'm happy to have a conversation about it. I've also gone through the, I've completed my classroom portion, at triple I. So, if you would like to have a conversation with me about my level two experience, I'm happy to talk to you about that as well, but, yeah. Looking forward to hearing from you all. I'm excited about Friday. If you're watching this, you should be, too. And if you haven't signed up, please sign up as soon as possible. All right? Laurel Elders: Yeah. We hope to see you there. And, as Bryant mentioned, the tuition is covered by scholarships for this one, thanks to the Sandy Hogan coaching, legacy. So we're very grateful for that and hope that that is a blessing to you as well. And we hope to see you next week. Bye for now. Jill Aronoff: Thanks, you guys. Bye.
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