E-Quip: The Pros and Cons of Mixing Modalities the of Coaching, Counseling & Consulting

Laurel Elders:
Welcome, everyone, to coaching quips. These are weekly coaching mastery tips designed to equip coaches, future coaches, and coachlike leaders with empowering approaches. I'm Laurel Elders, the founder of the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. I'm an ICF master certified coach. I got my start as a professional coach in 2005, and I have with me Bryant Alexander. Bryant is a coach and works with us in admissions, helping people align with the coach training options that are best suited for them and their organization. Bryant, I'm so excited to be back with you.

Bryant Alexander:
Yeah, I'm excited to be back with you. You know, I want to also say, I am a student. I am a student. We got to emphasize that always learning, the coaching journey never stops. So, I am also a student at the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. So I like to emphasize that I'm always learning, always getting better. That is the coaching journey.

Laurel Elders:
Yes. And congratulations, because not only did you just complete the class portion of the program, you just shared that you've got your ACC hours.

Bryant Alexander:
Yes, I have enough for my ACC hours. Now. It's like all this other stuff I have to make sure I do to actually graduate from the program.

Laurel Elders:
So we also have with us Jill. Jill Arnoff is a leadership coach, and she's going to be here answering questions in the chat and posting links and resources as we go. If you have any questions, um, feel free to post them here or later. And today's topic is. I'm really excited about this one. Mixing modalities.

Bryant Alexander:
Okay, let's talk about it.

Laurel Elders:
Yeah. So, first, I just want to make a distinction around what we're talking about with mixing modalities. Because in coaching, when we mix modalities as a coach, we call this integrative coaching. So we approach the coaching through a fully integrative lens. We're actually considering the eight domains of a client's potential.

Bryant Alexander:
Mhm.

Laurel Elders:
So, these are somatic, cognitive, emotional, relational, integrational, spiritual. All of these aspects is what integrative coaching looks like when we're mixing modalities as a coach. It's really powerful. It's the only way I coach now is to include all aspects of the whole. So just to offer that.

Bryant Alexander:
Okay, well, Laurel, before you move forward, how does that differ from your traditional coaching? Like, what to expect? Because you said it's an integrative approach. I think it's always good to just define what that means and what that looks like. So with those eight domains, how does integrative coaching kind of fit into that?

Laurel Elders:
So great question. Because, basically the way I look at it is like there's coaching skills, so you can learn the coaching skills. Then some schools of thought on coaching takes those skills and plugs them into a specialty area, like one of those eight domains. So, for example, they might be very mindset focused or somatics focused or relationship focused, which is great. And in our philosophy, let's take all of the eight domains and leverage the impact that they have on each other and the impact they have on the client's life. And how can we help the client develop all of the domains of their potential in a more integrated perspective?

Bryant Alexander:
Mhm. Yes, the whole person approach, I think that, and it's interesting because, I didn't really understand that until I came to the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. Mainly because it's just you. I guess you think about those domains as something that's separate, like one doesn't influence the other. But I think taking that comprehensive approach gives you the opportunity to see the whole person, but you also see how those different domains affect how the person shows up at work, how they show up for personal relationships, how they show up for family. So I think it's really important to define what is this integrative approach and what are these domains that we're talking about, especially somatics. Somatics. I'm addicted to that right now. I'm deep into research on somatics and how it affects how we interpret things, how our body feels things. So thank you for explaining that.

Laurel Elders:
Oh, absolutely. And, I think we should have a whole episode just on somatic. It's so powerful, for sure. Yeah. So that's what it looks like to mix modalities as a coach. It's taking a more integrative, holistic perspective. And at the end of the day, I think we might have talked about this. How in the business coaching world, in the executive coaching world, it doesn't really matter because regardless of who's in front of you, you have a whole person in front of you. So taking that holistic approach to coaching is so powerful. It's so powerful, yes. So the other side of mixing modalities is a little bit more controversial. Do we mix modalities as a coach? Do we add consulting in counseling? Where do all of these different approaches to helping and leveraging a client, how do they interplay or not? What are the pros and cons? And so that's what I really wanted to dive deeper into today.

Bryant Alexander:
Okay, sounds good.

Laurel Elders:
So we received a comment on our YouTube channel and some questions, and it's a perfect segue into what we're talking about with mixing modalities today. So I just wanted to bring this up, and I promised that we would speak to this. So the comment was, uh, this is very enlightening discussion. I'm a consultant supporting startup entrepreneurs in Tanzania, Africa. I am still not clear with the concept of coaching the whole person. At what point do I differentiate the consulting process and the coaching process? What is the ultimate goal of consulting and the goal of coaching? How do I know that this client needs coaching rather than consulting, advisory, or advising or training?

​Bryant Alexander:
What a question. Also, I want to say that we are global. I want to highlight that, too. Okay. But quite a question to ask, so please enlighten us. Please. Laurel.

Laurel Elders:
All ah, right. Well, coaching the whole person. M. That concept, know it seems kind of nebulous, but really what it is, it's considering the who and a client's inner world. Mhm. So, beliefs, thoughts, motivations, perspectives, our context, it's even the somatic responses that we have.

Bryant Alexander:
Mhm.

Laurel Elders:
Um, all of these internal, the client's internal world. When we're coaching the person, not the problem. We are coaching the client into who they are. M. And this is so important because in consulting, we're giving specialized advice. But here's the difference. Consulting is about the external world, not the internal world. Counseling is about the internal world. So you can see some potential overlap here, right?

Bryant Alexander:
Yes.

Laurel Elders:
So the question at what point do I differentiate the consulting process and coaching process? The easiest way I wrap my head around this one for me was the realization one day, because I would do both coaching and consulting, and one day I had this aha moment.

Bryant Alexander:
There it is. You just had it. (Zoom put off fireworks)

Laurel Elders:
That's hilarious. Zoom keeps surprising me every time we do these. Um. Ah, so what the realization was that I can be the expert of external things, processes, skill sets, the whole gamut, but I will never be the expert of someone else's truth. Ever. Period. Dot. So if I give a piece of consulting advice, a piece of missing information, how is the client going to bring that to life? That's where the coaching comes in. And a lot of consultants might, um, override that because their primary modality is to provide information. So adding coaching to the consulting is so powerful because all of a sudden, you're handing the power back over to the client, and you're getting them to become internally resourced around the information that's being given.

​Bryant Alexander:
Great points. Great points. And I would say that a good example of bringing both those approaches is executive coaching. Well, the executive coaching that I was doing a couple of months back, uh, with the organization, and, um, what I found was that I took the approach and my expertise was really like, helping people kind of move across an organization or internal mobility. Like, how do I grow within this organization? How do I develop skills? How do I get a team? How do I just become a more effective executive? And, um, it was a very specific case to where I had this, um, executive who had accomplished so much, um, in his career. He had started nonprofits, raised millions of dollars, right? And his biggest concern was, like, his biggest concern was just around, like, I feel like I don't know what I'm doing here anymore. I think that I've outgrown this organization. I do the work. It's cool, I enjoy it, but I think something is missing.

The piece that was easy for me to consult on was like, how do I help him just become a more effective manager? Because that was also one of his goals, right? So just like, how to manage personalities, how to manage your direct reports. But there was this other piece here around just fulfillment that he was alluding to. Like, I've done this a thousand times when I was coaching. What we got to the bottom of is that he actually didn't see the work that he was doing as, like, real business development, right? Because he had been doing the same type of work for at least 1520 years. But his fulfillment was actually around this dream that he had of starting a restaurant business. And he was just like, so, because he had this perception of the work that he was doing is not real, right, or not actual proof that he can start a business and run a business because he was one of the founding members of the organization. He was just like, I don't know how that's possible.

But when we got to the core of what he was doing, and it was just coaching around beliefs, motivations, values, that's when he was able to shift and say, like, oh, I am capable of starting this restaurant business. And deeper than that, we got to the why. And he was just like, I think that food just makes people feel good, and I just want to be a part of that. Right? So there was this consulting piece around, like, how do I just become a better manager? How should I better manage these two difficult direct reports right now? And that's what I was consulting on. But at the core of our coaching was just overall fulfillment, because once he got clear on, all right, this is what I'm doing, the direct reports became like, I'm not really too worried about that. I got this. I've been managing people. We got to that integrative. We started that integrative work on how pursuing something through coaching that is purposeful to you actually impacts the way you show up as a manager and how you deal with those challenging personalities. Right.

Because we tend to project what we want to do or things that are holding us back are, um, self sabotage onto other people. And what he found was once he was able to write out, we wrote out a vision statement together, we were able to put together an executive suite, a personal executive suite for him to hold him accountable to starting this restaurant business. Uh, his whole attitude towards work was different. He had direct reports were just like, I'll figure it out. I'll be a little bit more softer to this one. I'll be a little bit more solution oriented. This one. Like, he was self generating. But that wouldn't happen unless, of course, my expertise in just, like, learning and development within employees, but also just when it comes to understanding, like, all right, what is the thing that's missing here? What are your mindset, your beliefs, your values, the vision that you have for yourself? And how can we integrate that into the work that you're doing right now and just who you are as a person? So it was a powerful reframe for him because he got so excited about our coaching sessions after that. And just like everybody, one of the quotes that I remember from him is once I started telling everybody about this restaurant business, they wanted to give me money. They said like, hey, we've been waiting years for you to do this. Let's do it right. So it was one of the most memorable moments in coaching that I've had in recent time.

Laurel Elders:
I love that. So powerful. So powerful. And such a testimony to the power of coaching. Truly whole person. I mean, that went outside of just a management role into like, a bigger life purpose, life calling. But it also sounded like the mixing of modalities. Like you were there to do some consulting around. Was it the management piece?

Bryant Alexander:
Yeah, management.

Laurel Elders:
But the coaching took it to another level.

Bryant Alexander:
Yeah. I guess we don't always understand how much that personal fulfillment or feeling like you have that personal vision for yourself affects the way that we show up as employees, executives, founders, whatever it might be. Right? The attitude is different when you understand what the bigger vision is or when you know what your values are or you have that support system behind you in supporting that bigger picture, then you're able to be more receptive, like personality. You're able to give yourself empathy, but you're able to approach other people with more empathy and be a little bit more creative in your problem solving approach. Like one feeds the other. And that was a reframe for me because I didn't know I was doing that at that time. But then I was like, oh, this is what it is, right? Yeah, it was great.

Laurel Elders:
Well, and it also just really demonstrates integrative intelligence. Everything is connected in one way or another and it's like, yeah, who would have thought that that bigger. Why was going to, as that came forward, this was positively impacting the other. Why?

Bryant Alexander:
 It was powerful. Really grateful for that experience, for sure, because I used to think that I was talking too much like the 80 20 rule when it comes to coaching, but with that consulting piece, that's where I was able to kind of step in a bit. But also being able to use coaching as, um, combine it with coaching, I think that it was a perfect balance. Like, I was talking just enough, right? I wasn't talking too much, I was problem solving, but not too much. Like the coaching allowed him to just be vulnerable, provide that space for him to voice his dreams and what he actually wanted to do versus me telling him like, well, this is what you need to do. Mhm.

Laurel Elders:
When we are combining modalities, it does shift the dynamic. So I think one of the most powerful things to consider is this next question that was asked, how do I know what this client needs? Is it coaching or more consulting or how do I tell, um, the line that I've seen work really well? Is the client needing more of them or has the client got everything that they need to succeed? They just are missing some external information. So that's something to consider. The other thing to consider is the why. If a client is asking for advice, if you are a coach and you do some consulting, really take this one to heart, because sometimes we like to give our power away.

So sometimes I might want to just be given the answer, well, why? Is it because I'm scared of responsibility? Am I scared of ownership? Am I scared of owning my own power and space and truth? Because, we can seek answers externally because it feels safe. M one of the coaches role is to say, I don't have your answers, you have your answers. And I'm going to hold this space and invite you to dive deeper. And then boom, there's the answer and then the client gains more agency, more internal power over their own life.

​Bryant Alexander:
Agreed. I remember you telling us sometimes the answer is just maybe that's all you could say as a coach. Maybe that might be right. And I guess that goes back to usually the answers that we're looking for are right in front of us. It just takes somebody to hold that space because like you said, that this person has all the information, the resources, the network needed to do the work, but they're searching for the answer in what they think they should be doing or what others are doing. And ultimately you have the answer. It's just about you trusting yourself to be like, okay, let m me just do it my way to see what happens. So yeah, we always have the answer. It's just about trusting that, I guess, gut. And that goes to somatics. But also just being more in tune with the body. That's really important. But the coach sets the stage for that.

Laurel Elders:
Mhm. Yeah, absolutely. So in general, I also wanted to bring up adding. So there's all these different ways that we can mix modalities. So this is kind of fun to play with. So adding consulting to coaching can work if you set it up that way.

Bryant Alexander:
Mhm.

Laurel Elders:
So it depends. But adding coaching to consulting up levels the consulting because the consultant can then step in after they've given the information. The way every client implements it is going to be unique and different to that client.

Bryant Alexander:
Okay.

Laurel Elders:
Right. There's no one success formula for every single human being. We all have our own success formula. And the coaching skills help the consultant adapt and meet that unique person, that unique client with those unique internal challenges. Mindset blocks all of that. Adding coaching to counseling. Brilliant.

Bryant Alexander:
Mhm.

Laurel Elders:
I've talked to, yes, there you go. There we go. Zoom is celebrating. Zoom says yes. So add thing, coaching to counseling. So powerful. I've talked to so many therapist friends that the client makes so much progress with the counseling that they then transition into coaching and they start having developing the answers from within. But knowing how, when to make that shift is really powerful. And what are the coaching skills and what does it look like to shift from I have an agenda to get my client here to, I have no agenda. The client is now in the lead. That's a big shift.

​Bryant Alexander:
Yeah, I think that is a shift because you go through so much with a counselor or a therapist about the past and like, they're like, hey, last week we talked about this. How are we feeling about it? This week. All right, let's talk about this this week and then go from so much structure about understanding your past to, all right, you lead today. What do you want to talk about? Yeah, that's a big shift for people. But again, it allows you to take ownership of what that growth and development looks like for you. Now, it's, it's saying that, hey, you can take off the training wheels, okay? We got this bike. You can hop on. You don't need the training wheels anymore. We believe that we, as coaches, therapists, consultants that use that implement coaching we believe that you have the ability, your whole, your woe resource. You have everything that you need in order to actually get on this bike and continue to ride it. You might fall off a few times, but overall, we believe that we're going to be there to help you get back up. All right. So I think that's the powerful part of coaching. Like taking off those training wheels.

Laurel Elders:
Mhm. Yes. And then, the other thing to consider is adding counseling to coaching. So that is where we say, no, it's actually not effective. It's completely counter effective. It doesn't work because if a client, just to give everyone a visual, we've talked about this before. There's two journeys to our potential. The first journey, we're shown the way, and that gets us this far where we need someone to say, this way, not that way. And here's why. And we learn from that, and that's really important. But the second journey is the self discovered journey. And no one can give us our power. No one can tell us how to find our confidence and develop it. I mean, they can point in a direction which is first journey, but the true development comes from going within, and that is coaching. So if you add counseling to the second journey, you're taking the client back to the first journey. They're not going into themselves. Deeper into themselves and their potentials.

Bryant Alexander:
Mhm.

Laurel Elders:
So we've actually backtracked without even realizing it. So something to consider.

Bryant Alexander:
Wow, the self discovery is so scary, Laurel. Like, to go internally by yourself, your counselor gets you somewhere and it's like, okay, I understand these different labels. Depression, anxiety, my inner child and the inner child work. I understand a little bit about shadow work. I understand all these different terminologies. So how would you recommend somebody going into that self discovery journey? Because I know you showed a few examples, but you've been doing this, and in doing this work, it is a lot of self discovery, consistently. So for you, how did you go about that journey of self discovery, because it can be a very lonely place. Um, sometimes, not all the time, sometimes. But how did you kind of handle that and going through that process?

Laurel Elders:
Well, the first answer is working with a coach because we can take that self discovery journey alone. We can somewhat in community - as long as it's not taking us back to that first journey. Right. But working with a coach, because you have confidentiality, your coach is holding space. The coach isn't going to let you fall there with you through the process. There's a level of safety, and then when you connect with a coach, that's a really good fit. That's very important, too, is finding that coach that's a really good fit for what your goals are. But also there's this element of, are you ready for coaching? So being, am I coachable? Am I willing to self reflect? Am I willing to look at myself and say, ooh, my motivation was not very good, I got angry, or am I willing to own that part of my life? If the answer is yes, then the person's ready to up level and step in to the process, and it's so powerful. But if the answer is no, then maybe they're just not ready for the second journey yet.

Bryant Alexander:
M uh, look at yourself in the mirror and say, am I good with where I'm at right now? It's a choice at that point. It's a choice to continue to react or continue to live with that trauma or whatever you're holding. It's a choice to carry that around. And, I really feel like, because I think I did some of my journey alone as far as self discovery, in that I'm just genuinely always reflecting about my journey and my experience and just the interconnectedness between things. So it was just a lot of reading, a lot of. Just observation, a lot of just, I think still, one of the most powerful books that I've read to this day is, uh, the alchemist. And, uh, being able to just say this life is a journey, right. It is like, pretty much alchemy is, just shifting your reality from one thing to another. Turning things into gold, turning your life's work into this, uh, taking the elixirs of the world and turning it into gold. And, those books that I read just got me so much more curious about. All right, what else is here, right?

Because I was able to hit all of these different milestones. I got through five years of therapy, I got all the financial goals that I want I got the investment property, I got the job, and I was just like, all right, I think I'm at the mountaintop. But it's just like, what else is really here or what is worthwhile in this life? Because even understanding we have such a limited time on this earth. I'm like, is this it? Is there more? And that's a scary place to be. It wasn't easy because it's just like, all right, I guess this is it. But you have that time to where I was like, okay, I think I was 30. So, like, two years ago, I was just like, all right, I need to go get a coach. I need to figure out what are the next steps for me and what's the bigger picture, because I think that often gets left out because desire is something that we all suffer from and desire to want more money, to want the title, to want all of these things, but not really knowing why we want them.

So I think that's where coaching came in for me in that self discovery journey. It's like I got all these things, and that wasn't enough, or I thought that was the thing that's going to fill me. So coaching was able to just put into perspective that, no, you got to have a bigger picture. It's just like, you got to have a bigger mission, and it seems like you want to do more impactful work. Right. It's not just these transactional things that come along the way. You'll get the money, you'll get whatever you put your mind to. It's clearly that you can do it. But what are you doing it for and why? What's the bigger picture here? And that's where coaching really helped me get, uncluttered when it came to what I thought I wanted or what I thought I needed. Powerful.

Laurel Elders:
That internal exploration, internal world. M I love it. And I also love what you just said about uncluttered, because you think about it, because we have these egos and these fears and these doubts, the most powerful journey that we take is that from illusion to truth.

​Bryant Alexander:
M okay.

Laurel Elders:
And weeding through what is true, what is false, what do I need to embrace? What do I need to shed and let go of? And that a good coach will help you walk through that process and come out clear, uncluttered, more empowered, for sure. Nice.

​Bryant Alexander:
All, um.

Laurel Elders:
Right, well, I'm sad we're at the end of our time today.

​Bryant Alexander:
We can keep going.

Laurel Elders:
Well, let's do a summary. So, coaching, adding coaching to consulting. Yes, consulting to coaching just depends. Sometimes it can work. It depends on the why. Coaching to counseling. Yes. That works really well. Counseling to coaching. No, it's just not effective, and it interrupts the client's development. Also, coaching to mentoring. Yes, mentoring. Adding mentoring to coaching. It just depends. It depends on if it would impede in the client's process. If they're really ready for that second journey, it would impede. If they're not quite there yet, then maybe.

​Bryant Alexander:
M. Well, thank you for that wonderful summary, Laurel.

Laurel Elders:
Yeah. I hope it's helpful to those out there grappling with, do I mix modalities? Do I not? And then we'll do a deeper dive into the eight domains in future conversations as well.

​Bryant Alexander:
So much, so dense. But that's what makes it fun. You got to really care about this. Really do it. I'm excited.

Laurel Elders:
Me, too. Me, too. All right, so, we hope that everyone that has tuned in today that this has been a lantern to your path with coaching. It's our mission to elevate human potential through the art and the science of masterful coaching. And if you're an individual or organizational leader seeking to bring coaching into what you do, please reach out. Reach out to Bryant here on LinkedIn. And if you're joining from another platform, Bryant's email is admissions@integrativeintelligence. Global. And, Bryant, any final words about upcoming opportunities?

Bryant Alexander:
Yes. So, we have coaching fundamentals. So it is the first module of our program, and there is scholarship available for that. So that will be starting March 22. And it's only for one day, for 6 hours. So you have plenty of time to get that time off. But if you really want to, just get a better understanding of what coaching looks like and just what we actually do and how we do it, specifically at the Institute for Integrative Intelligence. Right. Please reach out to me, and I'm happy to share more information. I'm happy to set up a call. So, March 22, it will be a six hour day. Okay. But it will be the quickest 6 hours that you ever went through because you're going to have so much fun learning about the fundamentals of coaching.

Laurel Elders:
Yes. Our coaching intensive, and I just feel so blessed. We have these scholarships because of my mentor, Sandy Hogan. And this is an extension of her legacy funds. Sandy's no longer with us, and her husband decided to start up scholarship funds. So we thank him so much for taking that initiative. All right, so, one last thing before we hop off. We also help companies increase business performance and leadership impact by developing coaching talent and creating coaching cultures. So if you are a leader or director that is seeking to add coaching to what you are up to, you can see the benefits of bringing the coaching culture in. We've got many, um, different ways that we can support you in those initiatives, so feel free to reach out for those as well. And um, more information in the links below. Thank you. Jill, we've been seeing you drop some links down there, so feel free to reach out if you need anything and we'll see you next week. 
​
Bryant Alexander:
See you next week. Bye.

LINKS:

March 22nd - Coaching Fundamentals