PODCAST: Leadership & Coach Training

In this episode Laurel Elders interviews Timmy Ford. Timmy spent 20 years as a leader in a variety of coaching roles. Timmy shares his 20+ years of experiences as a leader, coach and his newest endeavor with ICF accredited coach training. Other topics: The power of versatility, challenges corporate trainings face and how to overcome them.

TRANSCRIPT

Laurel Elders: 
Welcome to Coffee, Coaching and Callings, a live podcast created for coaches, leaders, and helping professionals that are on a mission to lead a successful and heart centered life. Your host today is myself, Laurel Elders of the Institute for Integrative Intelligence, where it's our mission to elevate human potential through the art and science of masterful coaching. And I'm excited because today we're focusing on coaching mastery. And I have with me Timmy Ford. Timmy has been in the coaching and corporate and leadership world since 2000. Is that right?

Timmy Ford: 
Yeah.

Laurel Elders: 
​Welcome!

Timmy Ford: 
Thank you.

Laurel Elders: 
So, just to kick us off, would you mind sharing a little bit about, um, your background and how you got into the coaching world?

Timmy Ford: 
Sure. Thanks. So my background is primarily from frontline to corporate leadership. So I would say my first experience with coaching was in 2000 when I took over a team of nine frontline, um, sales leaders. And so I was promoted into that role. Um, and I did that role for probably five or six years, and then I was in another leadership role where I was responsible for coaching leaders who lead frontline leaders. So we call that leaders of leaders. Right, so you're coaching the coach now. Um, and so I did that for probably four years, and then I also was promoted into a vice president of sales role where I was then coaching the leader of leader of leaders. Right. Um, and it's all corporate. Um, I recently started my own, um, coaching organization within the last twelve months, but that's fairly new for me. That was based on kind of transitioning out of corporate America for a short period of time and knowing that the thing that I love the most was coaching. So, of all the things I was responsible before, in all those sales, uh, leadership years, the thing that I really enjoyed the most was coaching people and helping people to achieve their goals. Um, so that's my experience into coaching.

Laurel Elders: 
Great. Wow. And one of the reasons why I was so, um, interested in talking to you is because I loved what you shared about, um, the difference between being promoted into a role where you're just kind of expected to coach versus after taking a formal training and what came to you and what kind of experience did you have?

Timmy Ford: 
So that's a really great question. I think coming into our course, our cohort for training, for coaching, I really believed, I want to learn a lot, right. This was my belief, but I really believed, I know a lot. I've been doing this for 20 years. Those two things were kind of in the front of mind. And I remember after the first two or three introductory courses, I was like, I thought I knew a lot right. Um, because the focus that I learned early on was that I don't have all the answers. And as a coach, as a true coach, I don't have to have all the answers. In fact, it's probably better if I don't. And that was just eye opening to me because in my leadership roles, at least I thought I was supposed to have the answers. Let's be clear, I have some expertise, right? But by, um, far, it was just eye opening for me to learn a different way to help people solve their problems. And that was, I mean, like I said, within three courses, you know, the first three, you're just talking about what is coaching, kind of what do we do? What do we not do in this coaching world? Um, what are some of the ICF guidelines? I was like, really? So that was just, ah, pretty incredible for me to figure that out. It's a big aha moment. And one of your instructors, m I'm not going to say his name, but you may know it just by what I say. He made it really clear probably in the first course that he did with us. He was like, these people don't need your advice. Um, they need you to provide space for them, to help them figure out the best solutions for their challenges. And that really resonated with me as well. Um, early on, it became clear that there was a lot more to coaching than what I had been doing for the past 20 years.

​Laurel Elders: 
M that's so interesting. In your experience, were you provided some trainings or anything around -?

Timmy Ford: 
So we were trained on, um, things like situational leadership, the art of questioning, um, emotional intelligence, um, and if you just look at things like situational leadership, situational leadership is probably the closest to coaching because it encourages you to coach the person based on where they are. Right. Some of the questions that you ask are good, but it doesn't encourage you to really continue to draw out of them. Right. You're still going to. At some point it's expected that you suggest your expertise and you assert your expertise before pulling out their expertise, but situational leadership is probably the closest.

But, uh, in the corporate world, you could go two or three years without getting that type of training because you're going to get the performance management training, you're going to get the development training, and all these things are processes as to how to help people perform higher, but they're not in charge of their own development. Right. You're kind of in charge of making sure that they know these core things and this is a way to teach these core things and in hindsight, I'm surprised we even call it coaching. Right? But we do. I started a new job in October and they're like, oh, you're going to send you to our coaching class in, uh, February? I'm like, okay. And I looked at it and I'm like, okay, that's what we're calling it. That's fine. And some of it's more leadership than coaching, but not a lot of. In fact, I would say in terms of the class that I just took through institute of integrative intelligence, none of that other mhm. Than the only small piece, this idea of the art of good questions. That's probably something that. But it's still very basic.

Laurel Elders: 
Mhm.

Timmy Ford: 
We talk in coaching and in these courses around asking open ended question versus closed end question. And I'm pretty much a master. I can do that. I can do that exceedingly well because I've been doing it for 20 years. But you and I both know there's so much more going on than just that when you're actually coaching.

​Laurel Elders: 
Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Timmy Ford: 
Yeah. It's been extremely eye opening for me.

Laurel Elders: 
Nice. Yeah, I can completely relate. And I have seen that there's just a lot of companies that don't really know what they don't know, right. So they might be thinking, hey, we're doing coach training and don't know that there's a whole different complete training model out there for that.

Timmy Ford: 
You're right. I've worked for very large companies like multinational 100,000 employees and smaller companies with 2000 employees here in the US. And it's not that different. Right. In terms of coaching, the only place I see I have seen a legitimate coaching in corporate that's pretty consistent is at the executive level, right? At the executive level, they bring in coaches, right? So, example, when I was going to go from what we call second line leader, where I'm coaching the coach, to a vice president, um, the company actually paid for me to get an executive coach and he actually used coaching principles with me. And I knew it was like, this is so different than what I do. And that's probably one of the things that piqued my interest as well. But it was so dramatically different, right. Because the thing that I think made it different on the surface was I about to be a vice president and he's never been a vice president. And I'm like, in my corporate world, that would never happen. So I'm interested. I'm like, okay, what does this gentleman have to offer? And, um, it became very clear that what we did and what we worked on was well beyond me just becoming a vice president. Right. Um, it was much more how do I be the best version of Timmy? As opposed to just the nuts and bolts of leading a segment or business view of the company. And that's relatively consistent across most companies. The one place you'll see coaches is when they bring them in, they coach the executives.

​Laurel Elders: 
Mhm. Yeah, that makes sense. Um, I was curious, what piqued your interest in ICF accredited coach training certification? That path.

Timmy Ford: 
So that's a very interesting question. So when I left my, um, role this time last year, January of 2023, um, as I said earlier, I was really trying to figure out, what is it? All this leadership experience I've had, what is it that I like the most? It's a lot that you do. You hire people, you get people promoted, you help people get bigger bonuses. In my world, you help a lot of patients to get better. Because I work in pharmaceuticals. Right. So there's a lot that happens there and you do corporate stuff and you do field stuff. And I was like, what is it that I really like the most?

And I decided at that time, my definition of coaching was the area that I liked the most. Right. I like to see people achieving their goals. I like to see people developing themselves. I know that when I did it very well, not only it would help them at work, it would help them at home. And so I started reaching out to people who had coaching organizations like the ones that I thought I wanted to have. Um, and some were bigger and some were smaller. And I started talking to them about, um, ICF accreditation. And it was interesting. If I talked to ten organizations, it was 50/50. Like some said, you should do it. It makes sense for different reasons. Some said, I don't have the ICF accreditation, it's not necessary.

But the difference was those who said they recommend it were looking to the future, right? So they were saying things like, yeah, I remember one lady in specific, she said, I don't have the credential, but I've been doing this for 20 years and all my customers are the same. And then she said, but for you, as a new person, a lot of large organizations, if you're going to coach executives or senior leaders, they're going to require you to have some type of credential. In fact, they're not going to allow you to be on the panel without some type of credential. So that was one reason.

Another friend of mine who was credentialed, she was like, Timmy, you've been in your business for a long time, so you're going to be comfortable coaching someone in your business with what you already know. But if you have to coach someone outside of your business in it, or in building sales or something like that, or in HR, that's outside of your area of expertise. If you get ICF certified, you will be comfortable coaching all those people. And that resonated with me as well. Right. Um, and then, um, I bid, uh, on a coaching opportunity and um, I remember asking my contact, do they require certification? And she goes, I don't think we do. And so then I talked to another guy who had pitched the company before. He goes, go on their website and look under vendor requirements. I was like, jeez, how about. But once I dug in, I went on there and she didn't realize it, but uh, it said on there, you can coach for us, you need to be certified by ICF.

So it became clear that it would be better for me to get certified and have that training for at least two reasons. Right. One, it's going to make me more confident when coaching outside of my area expertise. And two, there are likely going to be companies that require it. Um, so those are the two things that, and again, if I talked to ten companies, it was 50 50, but the logic for doing it just made more sense to me than not.

Laurel Elders: 
Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I, uh, love what you just said about the versatility. So it sounds like the corporate, "general" corporate definition of coaching is also including mentoring someone up with your experience. So the coach training and certification helps you be completely versatile, go into any situation, talk to any client and be able to empower them from there.

Timmy Ford: 
Absolutely. Absolutely. And I don't know that I had thought of it that way until I was talking to this lady and she was talking about that. And another guy, another friend of mine who I used to work for, who has since retired, and he's a full time coach. Um, we had a really robust conversation about coaching versus mentoring as well.

​Laurel Elders: 
Mhm.

Timmy Ford: 
He - I'm not surprised- he reluctantly got certified because his network was so big. But one of the organizations that he wanted to work with was like, you can come work for us, but you need to get certified. Um, and he shared as well. He was like, Timmy, the reality is you've done as much mentoring and consulting as you have coaching. So not that they never cross paths, the mentoring, coaching and consulting, but you need to be really clear on the difference. And he said, even though I went reluctantly, he said, that's something that I've, uh, since learned.

And he, he said it again, he goes, you know, when I coach someone in building services, right, he's like, uh, my coaching training is so helpful because I don't have any expertise in building services, but he's a building services executive, so he's like, so I would recommend you do that because it's going to help, and I use your word, it's going to help your versatility, and you're going to be much more confident by far. Uh, I've just seen that, um, even just coming through the course and the people that I'm engaging with right now for my coaching. So the versatility is a big thing, and I don't think you think about versatility when you've had as much experience as I've had. 

You think that you're pretty versatile. Right. Um, but you don't realize that most of the people that you've coached and more appropriately mentored have either been direct reports or referred to you by someone who said he should be your mentor. So you can get whatever you want. Um, but you don't realize how what I would call homogeneous, the people you've coached have been until you step back and take a look or someone helps to open your eyes to help, you know you're going to need more versatility.

Laurel Elders: 
Yeah, that's a really good point. Um, so you're now on the other side of the training. What benefits have you seen, um, or shifts have you experienced?

Timmy Ford: 
So it's been incredible, right. I've gotten, over the years, a lot of accolades for helping a lot of people to accomplish a lot of things. Um, but one of my, um, clients, um, invited me to come to her meeting, like she was having a meeting for her team. She has a small organization here in Fisher's, and, ok, I'll come. And I'm like, hold on. What role do you want me to play? There? She goes, I want you to play your coach role because we know each other as well. I said, okay. And so I show up and I sit down and we were meeting, and she goes, okay, I brought Timmy for today. He's my professional coach, um, and he helps me to help you guys. And one of the things that he does exceedingly well is the questions that he asks me help me to think about our business in ways I never imagined. And I have to tell you, Laurel, I've had a lot of accolades, but I've never, ever had anyone talk about the way that I ask them questions right now.

And then she said, the other thing is, he not only helps me to learn to help you guys, but he helps me to learn more about myself as well and how I can be a better version of myself for you guys again. Never had that in 20 years of coaching, right. Or 20 years of probably more mentoring than coaching. So I've seen feedback and heard feedback, and I've heard that multiple times. And by the way, she has a real estate company. Right? I told you, I've been in pharma for the last 20 years. So that versatility that we talked about earlier, um, has been very helpful for that. So I think people see me differently as a coach, and maybe they see me as an actual coach now, and they saw me as a mentor and leader in the past. I'll take either one, but they're dramatically different. Um, so I've heard that from that client and then another client I just sat down with a couple of weeks ago and we got to leave. And he's a 20 year executive as well. He was like, you know, every time we get together, I love meeting with you because I always see things dramatically different than I saw them before.

​Laurel Elders: 
Mhm.

Timmy Ford: 
I always think about them differently. He's like, and you don't really bring new ideas, but you help me to see stuff that I've never seen when I'm looking at challenges or opportunities. And honestly, like I said, I've gotten a lot of accolades over time, but never those types of accolades. And I think that's been fantastic for me to see that from different types of folks. Right. Not just people in my business. Um, and so those are just kind of glowing, um, unsolicited, right. I didn't ask for any of this stuff. This is not during my time of asking for feedback. This is their time of either introducing me or just telling me, hey, this is how we're doing. So to me, that's been pretty incredible. I don't know that this time last year, when I was academically thinking about if I wanted to do this, I anticipated that type of feedback from people that I'm working with.

​Laurel Elders: 
Right? Wow. I love it.

Timmy Ford: 
Yeah, it's been pretty incredible. Um, and then the last thing I'll share is I heard one of my clients talking about me. Because a few of my clients, we run in the same circles, right? They have these businesses, and I didn't have a coaching organization. So since I started my coaching organization, I started coaching them. And when you hear people talking about you and you're not like, you're just in a group of business leaders, they're just introducing you. Sometimes it's pretty incredible to hear the things that they say about you because they haven't actually said those things to you. Um, and they talked about kind of how I coach and how I compare to other coaches, and, um, it's been pretty incredible. So it's been eye opening, positively surprising, and, uh, just a real joy for me to utilize the things I've learned in the institute.

​Laurel Elders: 
Yeah, I love that. And I'm curious about, is there anything personally that you've learned or taken away from it? Because I find that coach training is so impactful, in a sense, because you gain the professional skills, but a lot of people find it also has some sort of personal impact. I'm just curious if there's-?

Timmy Ford: 
So I said I wouldn't have anticipated the feedback from my clients, but I don't think I realized how much I would learn about myself either. Right. Um, it's a couple of books. Kind of going through this book (Wisdom of the Enneagram, by the Enneagram Institute) and trying to figure out, um, and then this book (Conversations About Being a Coach, by Dr. Victor McGuire). If you would have told me that I would have worked on myself for this past year as much as I have with things I've learned in this course, I don't know. That wasn't why I was taking the course. I was taking the course to be a better.

​Laurel Elders: 
Ya Shhh - Don't tell anybody!
​
Timmy Ford: 
Even the way I approach my kids now, they're grown kids. Right. Um, has changed so dramatically because of the way I see myself. Right. And understanding some of my own. Um, I don't want to call limitations, but what could be limitations if not explored and dealt with. Right. I didn't sign up for this. Right. But in hindsight, I'm like, wow, that has been so helpful. Uh, it's probably impacted the way I, um, do everything, but I didn't anticipate that it would change me so much and help me to develop so much. I did it for development, but I didn't know it was going to be like, personal, emotional development of things that I just hadn't thought about in a long time. Um, I'm going to mess this name up. I think it's called the wheel of life. When I went through that, it was just like, again, so personal for me. Right. We were going through it to learn how to use and all that stuff, but we filled it out and I was like, wow, okay.

So it's been tremendous personal impact on me that, again, I didn't anticipate, um, but in hindsight, I think that is probably one of the things that will make me a better coach as well. Right. You know, if I'm a better version of myself, I'm going to be better for everybody that I interact with but didn't see it. Certainly didn't know that that was going to happen. But that's been a huge, um, in business, we call this a huge unintended consequence of taking the course. Right?

​Laurel Elders: 
Positive consequence, yes.
​
Timmy Ford: 
My positive consequence. Absolutely.

​Laurel Elders: 
Nice. And, um, any words of wisdom for anyone out there that is like, should I take that training if they've been in your shoes of, yes, I'm a leader. Part of my role is coaching, but not sure if it's worth it. Any thoughts?
​
Timmy Ford: 
I think they all should do it, right? Because I think it changes the way you approach people, which I think would help every leader. Um, so I think everybody should take it because I think if you're going to coach people, heck, I think even if you aren't going to coach people, if you just want to be a better version of yourself, going through this course will help you with that and help you to be a better leader. Because as a leader, one of the things fundamentally that the course teaches that we spend so much time and energy trying to get our leaders to understand is just such a higher regard and expertise on listening. And I think every leader that's responsible for coaching one or 100 people is going to benefit from that.

​Laurel Elders: 
Mhm.
​
Timmy Ford: 
So I think we all should do it. In fact, the more experience you have, the more you need it, and the earlier you do it, the better you're going to do it. So if you've got two years as an executive, you should do it. If you have 20 years as an executive, you should take the course because it's just going to make you so much better in so many aspects of your life, including work.

​Laurel Elders: 
Mhm. Yeah, I completely, um, agree and resonate. And I was especially reflecting, as you were sharing on how just learning how to listen to somebody, you can learn so much about someone's values when you learn how to listen to what's not said, like, what's in their heart of hearts and that you don't get from just taking like a communication course.
​
Timmy Ford: 
No, right. No, I mean, I was with a really good friend of mine. We were at dinner on Friday and he said, hey, I know you have this coaching company. Will you meet with my daughter? She's, um, 7-10 years out of school, and she's thinking about doing something different with her career. And I said, yeah, that's fine. He goes, what? Can we do it next week? I'm like, well, my weekdays are pretty busy, but I'll do it anytime on the weekend. So we met yesterday. I won't tell you the entire story, but we met to talk about what does she want to do, how does she want to do it? And I remember texting him, I'm like, hey, what's your role? You're coming to this meeting, but what's your role? And what's my role? And what's her role?

And what I was basically trying to say, are you going to let her talk? Because normally he does. Normally he does all the time. So we got him to let her talk. But they were talking during the meeting and he made a comment. They were just talking back and forth about her career. He said, you're 30 years old. And she gave him this look like death. And you know what? He didn't even acknowledge it. He just kept talking. And I was like, can we stop for a minute? He's like, sure. I'm like, what was that look? Why did you look at him that way? And she goes, because he mentioned that I'm 30 and I feel like I should have my career together by now. And I don't.

And I was like, I don't know that I would have even asked about that had I not taken this course. Not that I wouldn't have seen it, but that kind of changed the entire conversation. Right. And I think those types of things, the things that people aren't saying. Right. The nonverbals. And that was a strong nonverbal. There was nothing subtle about it. But frequently those types of things, we just let them get by. But from my training and coaching, those type of things will never get by because they mean so much. They frequently mean more than what's actually being said.

Laurel Elders: 
Yeah. And that's the opportunity to go deeper, get to the root.
​
Timmy Ford: 
Yes. Uh, because until she works through that, she's not going to find the role that she wants. Not because she doesn't have a degree, not because she doesn't have the experience, not because she's been home for a couple of years as a mom, that thing right there is going to get in the way.

Laurel Elders: 
Mhm.
​
Timmy Ford: 
And if we solve it right, she's going to be able to go out and take on the world. But if you just let it go by, you kind of never get there. And you wonder why she's kind of bumping along. So I would say this idea of coaching teaches you so much on how to listen and help people, um, to help themselves.

Laurel Elders: 
Mhm.
​
Timmy Ford: 
Whereas sometimes the mentoring. There's a place for it, but it's not the same.

Laurel Elders: 
Yeah, different times, different things. Absolutely. Nice.
​
Timmy Ford: 
So yeah, it's been fantastic for me. I think all executives should do it. Um, you know this, but as corporations, particularly large corporations, we spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on leadership training, which is needed, but we don't spend near the amount on coaching.

And it's not because the money isn't there. In fact, I know it's that most of our executives and even our trading folks are not as well read on. Coaching versus consulting and mentoring.

Laurel Elders: 
Right.
​
Timmy Ford: 
The other thing that's big that I've learned is the executives in most cases, hold the budget for the training. So when you come to leadership development department, you kind of tell them what you want to spend your budget on.

So that has held us back a little bit as well. M. We think it's leadership development, but in fact, in reality, typically HR has the master list of coaches and the executives hold the budgets for what they're going to do with that list.

Laurel Elders: 
Mhm. How do you see that could change or shift for the better?
​
Timmy Ford: 
Well, I think there's a couple of different ways it could change or shift for the better, I think even if our coaches knew that. Right. Because when I talk to my peers here in Indiana and my local ICF and I talk about how do you get your clients? Who do you talk to? How do you find your people? Most people aren't talking to executives. They're talking to, uh, HR, they're talking to the development department. Um, and that's good. But the budget is usually held on the other side of the house and those guys are usually making their request. Now, I think HR is a good place to start because sometimes in what we call succession planning, they do have a voice. Right.

But I think the difference is the executives have a voice and a budget. So I think if my peers, if we were calling on the right people and talking to the right people about, um, utilizing our services, that would change dramatically. And in fact, when I've seen it change in the past, like the coach that I had, I was telling you about what happened was I started telling my boss and my peers kind of how valuable this coaching was and guess what? He got like six more clients in probably two months.

Laurel Elders: 
Oh, wow.
​
Timmy Ford: 
So I think we can do a lot. Um, and I think people like your organization as well can encourage your students and your alumni to spread the word because I think some of your student alumni work in corporations. They're not all in the same world you're in, that can help too. It may not just help you, but it will help the people in the organization. It'll help the move up coaching in general as opposed to just mentoring.

Laurel Elders: 
Yeah. And it's interesting, too, because I've seen the research on coaching efficacy that's coming out more and more, especially 2023. So many, um, just really profound results came to light. But you think about sometimes research can take like ten years, right. They're tracking. So it is exciting that, um, all of this is coming to light more.
​
Timmy Ford: 
And there's good research. Right. So when I started, um, my company and I was trying to pitch companies on utilizing my services, I was amazed at the research that's out there. There's some research that suggest that training is effective, but training with, attached to coaching is like six times more effective. And there was a lot of kind of stats like that, um, that I just didn't know existed. But since I was pitching large organizations, I thought in my head, let me figure out what's out there that says you should do this. Um, just a little bit that I've seen is, it's impressive. Right. I didn't know what I would find, so I created like a one slide. It's the first slide that I use when I'm talking to clients or corporations to say, why should you do this? Um, so I have some of those stats. I think that could be helpful too, maybe. Um, and you guys may already have it, but maybe if you're sharing that on your website, in terms of, for your students to have data in the form of one or two slides when they're pitching themselves to organizations, that could be helpful too, um, to raise the value of coaching.

Laurel Elders: 
Right.

Timmy Ford: 
Because I don't know that everybody knows the data or has even seen the data. When I say everybody, I'm just thinking of my own little cohort. I'm not convinced that everybody knows that that data is out there that says coaching coupled training is like six times more valuable.

Laurel Elders: 
Yeah. It was 22%. Training alone went up to 88%. With training plus coaching.

Timmy Ford: ​
That's it. Yes. When I saw that thought, wow, that's a star. I mean, I didn't know it, but I think there's plenty of people that don't know it. Right?

Laurel Elders: 
Yeah. And yet it makes sense because it takes the training and it personalizes it. Right. And that's the brilliance of the coaching approach.

Timmy Ford: ​
And you always get more when you personalize. Right. It makes total sense. But that doesn't mean people know, understand and utilize that right.

Laurel Elders: 
So true. Well, uh, it's been such an, um, honor to talk with you about this and I really hope that anybody that just needed to hear some of your insights and experience, um, can take away what they needed to from today's conversation. Anything else? Before we wrap up?

Timmy Ford: ​
There's one other thing that I didn't share that really was a big deal for me, actually getting involved in ICF coaching. And that was, ah, one of the people that I was talking to about getting ICF coaching. She's a professor at Indiana, uh university, and I had asked her just to speak with her because she had a practice similar to the one I was, and she told me about Coaching for Everyone. And she goes, you should apply for CFE. She said, I think you'd be a good candidate. I said, what is this? She goes, well, just Google CFE. It's a program to get BIPOC coaches involved in coaching. Um, and I can tell you that's how I found you guys. Right?

And one of the things that was a little bit of a barrier for me for coaching is when I was looking into it, it was somewhere between $12, 000 and $20, 000 to get, um, um, um, to be in an ICF program. And what CFE is doing to help with that was just, I mean, that was like the thing that put me with. I'm doing this. This is a real value for something that I think is important. So that's another piece that I think was really important for me. Um, that CFE piece has been a real valuable piece for me overall. So thanks for being a part of that.

Laurel Elders: 
Yeah, uh, it's our pleasure and we're so honored to be a part of, um, Coaching for Everyone. And for those of you that haven't, um, learned about Coaching for Everyone yet, it's coachingforyone. org. You can check out their services. And um, we share the same philosophy of just let's get coaching, um, into the world. Because the world is needing positive impact now more than ever. There's just so much going on. So coaches are changing that?

Timmy Ford: ​
Yes, absolutely.

Laurel Elders: 
Well, thank you so much. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experiences with everyone one today.

Timmy Ford: ​
Thank you for having me, I appreciate it.

Laurel Elders: 
Thank you for listening in. We hope these messages have been a lantern to your path as you expand your success as a coach, leader or helping professional. You can join the conversation further at integrativeintelligence global. We'll see you next time. Thank you. Bye.